Steve "Enorrste" Norris from the GET Team is without a doubt the biggest windbag in the land of dinar. I've never read such rambling, pointless posts on an investment in my life. It wouldn't be so bad if he could at least get his facts right, but as you will see he has trouble in this area. Unfortunately many are taken in by his seeming command of the facts and his fanciful writing style. There are a few good dinar investors out there fortunately, who have spotted the BS in his posts and called him on it. See below.
9/1/10
Now, if you will bear with me again, I’d like to take you on a fairly short history trip through America in order to make a significant point, hopefully, before I move back to Iraq and try to show you how the events unfolding today in Iraq are eerily similar to the recent history in America.
I’d like to title this part of my essay as follows: The Ends Justify the Means
I will start 50 years ago this year with the election of Jack Kennedy. As some of you may know, Jack was hardly known prior to his running for president. However his father was well known as a wealthy man in Massachusetts. His wealth was generated through the benefice of the most powerful man in America at the time, Sam Giancana, a mobster in Chicago.
Sam decided that it was important for him to have “his man” in the White House, so he told Joe Kennedy that he would make his son Jack the next president. Naturally Joe was pleased and accepted the offer without realizing what he was doing.
Incidentally, at the same time Sam Giancana promised the presidency to another of his protégé’s, namely Richard Nixon.
During the first primary in West Virginia Sam had his cronies voting under dead person’s names all day long. Not surprisingly Jack Kennedy one that primary and all of a sudden his name was in the news.
Now we skip to the actual election night in Chicago, where Jack Kennedy finally was declared the victor. Dead people voted all day in Dade county, the home of Chicago and of Sam Giancana, incidentally. It was in Dade County that the election was finally determined, again not surprisingly.
So we see here that the ends apparently justified the means. We ended up with our greatest icon for president, and only a little corruption occurred and only a few laws were broken.
Richard Nixon threatened to sue, naturally, knowing as he did what Sam was doing. Sam called him into his office and gave Nixon this simple yet true statement: “I told you I would make you President; I did not tell you when I would do it!”
Of course when Sam became disenchanted with the level of cooperation from the Kennedys, he took matters into his own hands. But that is history.
Moving on to Nixon now, we see how he clearly understood the idea of he ends justifying the means. This man was well on his way to having a landslide victory for his second term. But that wasn’t good enough for him. He wanted assurance that he would win. The result was a small burglary that came to be known as the Watergate Affair.
Now Nixon got caught, so you might well ask, “Did the ends justify the means?”
Well, surprisingly, they did, because even though his small illegal dealings were revealed, and even though he resigned in disgrace, today he is seen as one of the greatest Presidents of the last century. After all, his indiscretions were only minor, right?
Speaking of indiscretions, let’s now move up to Bill Clinton. As you all know he had his little picadillos in office. That would not have concerned me. Actually nothing illegal occurred. Immoral, maybe, but not illegal. Until he was impeached, however. You see at his impeachment trial he perjured himself, which is illegal.
Yet what happened? He was declared not guilty, my friends. He got away with it. So here we see that it is not only OK for the ends to justify the means, but that you can also get away with it! After all, it was only a small illegality, right?
I could easily talk about the Kerry/Bush election or the Gore/Bush election and make the same point I’m making here. But I will cut to the chase, as it were.
Now we move briefly to our current President. I am not speaking politically here. I’ve referenced no party thus far, only individuals. This isn’t about policy.
The current president just happened to grow up in Chicago, the same place that the “dirty tricks” started from 50 years ago. He was clearly taught some of those tricks and used them effectively to get himself elected. Only after he was in office was it shown that gross voter registration fraud had occurred in the Acorn organization that he was intimately connected with. However, he got the job, right? So a small illegality was justified because the ends got him into office. While I won’t dwell on it, his place of birth is also a concern, and anyone who has done his homework on this will know that he is not a naturalized citizen. Once again, it’s just a small indiscretion, right? Incidentally, this item may come to bite him. The issue is about to be heard at the Supreme Court level.
Realizing his success at this new form of democracy, he applied it again and again. His best use was to “deem” a bill passed. Not legal, but it worked. In short, the ends justified the means, at least from his point of view.
Our history lesson is almost over. What have we learned, and what has it taught the entire world? Here is the answer. Instead of having a true democracy in America we need only have he appearance of a democracy in America. After that, the government can effectively do whatever it wants, AND get away with it.
Now, just before we return to Iraq, let’s go to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and see if we can’t pull this whole thing together.
As you all know, in Jackson Hole the Federal Reserve held its annual meeting on the American economy. This is a normal event and we shouldn’t be surprised to see it occur. However, something a bit different happened at this meeting.
We would normally expect Bernanke to be there because he’s over the Fed. But Geitner was also there, and he’s in Treasury, which is only tangentially related to the Fed. But who else was there? Yes, Mr. Shabibi, the head of the CBI. Why would that be the case? And even more to the point, why would representatives of the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund be there as well?
This is where the ends will be shown to justify the means.
From here on I am presenting my opinion, based upon the known facts. If I’m wrong, so be it. But I believe you will almost all agree with my conclusions when I’m done, so let’s proceed.
It seems clear to me that the entire economic world is in serious trouble and that there is now only one way to resolve the financial crisis. That solution just happens to be the reinstatement of the Iraqi dinar to its early 1980s level of $3.33 or thereabouts. I’ve discussed here many times how it will “reboot” the world’s economy, as TK likes to use the term. It is an excellent term for what will occur, in my opinion. Therefore we need not dwell on that any more.
But clearly also there is a serious problem in getting this RI done. We are not the only ones frustrated with the interminable delays of the Iraqi government, or rather the lack of one, in just DOING IT!
Now here is where, in my opinion, a small illegality will be shown to be the “means” that will justify the ends. I want you to pay close attention in particular to a key player from yesterday.
Let’s just assume that we are in Jackson Hole and that we are privy to the conversations between these key players. Can’t you just hear them? “What the heck are they doing over there? Don’t they know how badly we need this RI to happen? How much longer can we wait for them to get their act together? What are we going to do?”
Then you might hear Mr. Geitner say something. Remember, he is a buddy of our current President and knows about “dirty tricks”. Let’s see if we can listen in to his conversation and his “solution” to the Iraqi problem.
“Listen, guys,” he says, “I think I have an idea. It seems pretty clear that there really is no government in Iraq now, right? And it certainly isn’t clear that they are making significant progress in getting one formed, right? And Maliki is being a real prick with his obstinance, right? So here’s my plan.”
Of course the listeners are all ears, but they can hardly believe what they next hear. However, when they hear it, and they think back over the last 50 years in American political history, it only makes sense. The question is: can they get away with it? Oh, we got that answer from Bill Clinton and Barack Obama! Of course they can!
Geitner continues: “Here’s what we do. We have Barack announce to the world that Iraq is now sovereign, right? Then he states clearly and unequivocally that Maliki is the NEW prime minister of the caretaker government! Now, this is technically totally illegal, right, but what if we get away with it? We tell Maliki up front, through Biden, that this is his last chance to come through, or else. He’s a player, so he’ll cooperate. We tell him Barack will back him 100% as the NEW prime minister of the caretaker government. Of course it’s all out of thin air and illegal, but Barack can pull it off. He’s good at this stuff. No one will be the wiser. Oh, here’s something else. We’ll even have Barack say hint as the new Prime Minister Maliki can do whatever he wants, now that his country sovereign. This will get us around the whole Chapter 7 thing and the UN and the IMF, right?”
So what happened? Everyone buys into the deal. After all, it’s just a little bit illegal, right? And the ends, in this case the RI, are definitely justified by the means, right?
And besides, we all know that democracy itself isn’t important, right? It’s the appearance of democracy that matters, right?
By doing this they effectively place the entire issue of the new government on a side track. I can just hear Geitner: “What the heck, let them take until the end of the year to form their government! In the meantime we have a new government in place by fiat! How cool is that?”
Now, whether in fact this conversation, or something like it, took place or not I have no idea. But I do know one thing for sure: What Obama and Maliki have done is totally illegal by any standard, and the entire world just doesn’t care.
In case you aren’t sure that this is illegal I have posted several articles starting in April when a call was made by Allawi to form a caretaker government. Then in July another politician in Iraq called for a caretaker government to be formed. Specifically they wanted an interim prime minister, two vice presidents, and so on. It’s all in my post, which is already up.
But then came the subtle change, just yesterday. Here is what Obama said:
“A caretaker administration is in place as Iraqis form a government based on the results of that election. “
Now as if that weren’t bad enough, because it isn’t technically true, Biden backed him up! See the article of his presence in Iraq for his statements and the reporter’s response.
Now to seal the deal the press has to pick up on it and not let on that it is illegal, right?
Here is what was written in the Free Library, an internet news service:
“The caretaker government has said the latest bloodshed is a last-ditch effort by militants to undermine Iraq's fledgling democracy more than seven years after the US-led invasion ousted Saddam Hussein.”
So I submit to you that they have proven, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the ends justify the means.
We will get our RI in short order, in my opinion.
The question you all have to ask yourselves is this: will it leave a bitter taste in your mouth, or not? Think about that, folks. Think about it hard.
Now, ask yourselves this question: would Obama and his world cronies actually do this? I believe we have the answer in Maliki’s own words. But first let me give you another clear quote that indicates that Obama’s subtle illegality has gained traction. Here is the quote:
“New Prime Minister General Commander of the Armed Forces Nuri al-Maliki's confidence in the ability of Iraqi forces to assume security responsibilities, and the arrest of the perpetrators of terrorist crimes car bomb that targeted different areas of the country yesterday.”
So the plan is now complete, apparently, and we have a new Prime Minister of a caretaker government that was never created but now exists. It’s just a small illegality, right?
I’m almost through with this. Hang on for just 30 more seconds.
Dinar Daddy posted this important article today. Here is the relevant quote:
“Prime Minister of Iraq Maliki has requested the Central Bank of Iraq to review the country, taking into account the economics of the Iraqi Dinar now being increasingly strengthened.
He stressed again that the dinar has a strong reason to go up by taking into account the income and economic development of Iraq.
The Central Bank of Iraq is to analyze all relevant issues and will make a decision in the near future.”
At this point we should all be stressed about the ends justifying the means, and happy as heck that Maliki is the “new” Prime Minister of the illegal caretaker government!
I hope you all enjoyed this. I had a blast pulling it together.
Of course I could be wrong.
Steve |
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Response from fsr42 at Currency Chatter:
"The current president just happened to grow up in Chicago, the same place that the “dirty tricks” started from 50 years ago."
Wrong. He grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia.
"Incidentally, at the same time Sam Giancana promised the presidency to another of his protégé’s, namely Richard Nixon."
Conspiracy nut nonsense.
"Moving on to Nixon now, we see how he clearly understood the idea of he ends justifying the means. This man was well on his way to having a landslide victory for his second term. But that wasn’t good enough for him. He wanted assurance that he would win. The result was a small burglary that came to be known as the Watergate Affair. Now Nixon got caught, so you might well ask, “Did the ends justify the means?” Well, surprisingly, they did, because even though his small illegal dealings were revealed, and even though he resigned in disgrace, today he is seen as one of the greatest Presidents of the last century. After all, his indiscretions were only minor, right?"
There was never any evidence that Nixon knew about or ordered the Watergate break-in. The charges that would have been brought against Nixon were dealing with obstruction of justice. And just who are these historians who deem Nixon one of the greatest presidents of the 20th century? I haven't heard any saying that.
I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point. This guy's history is as flawed as his dinar analysis and intel. Follow him at your own peril.
9/25/10 (Condensed from a long, rambling post about 10 times this long)
“The governor of the Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) on Monday said that the current exchange rate (1,170 Iraqi dinars per dollar) is reasonable, adding that the bank has enough foreign reserves to defend the exchange rate.
“ ‘The CBI is adopting a managed floating policy of exchange rate, through which a reasonable exchange rate is fixed,’ Sinan Al-Shabibi told Aswat al-Iraq news agency.
“’The current exchange rate is reasonable and stable and can be defended by our vast foreign reserves, totaling $43 billion U.S. dollars at the moment,’ Shabibi explained.”
I have already explained elsewhere how I believe that this article has inaccurately stated the intentions of Shabibi. The phrase in parentheses was interjected into the article by a reporter, and was not stated by Shabibi himself. With its removal the intent of Shabibi is more clear. In addition, as I have argued, the word “current” is also incorrectly translated into English from Arabic and it should read “new” instead.
Therefore, I have argued that Shabibi has announced the final fulfillment of the 5 year “action plan” begun in 2005 and he is right on the schedule laid out 3 years ago by Al-Zubaidi in which he indicated in 2007 that the plan would require another 3 years to complete. Therefore Shabibi’s statement should correctly be understood as the announcement of the adoption of a new exchange rate for the dinar. As I have stated before, the only way in which the last sentence can have proper meaning is for it to refer to a
new rate rather than the old (current) rate. Unless a new rate is being discussed the statement that it is “reasonable and stable and can be defended” has no bearing on the old rate whatsoever. The old rate is not only not reasonable, as stated by Maliki the day before as being “too low”; but it also does not need to be “defended” by huge reserves. The reserves of Iraq were only $11 billion just 3 years ago, and the rate was the same then as it is now (.00086). The increase in reserves therefore MUST refer to a new rate that is defensible by these reserves being in place.
Finally, we received two articles that had to be quickly dismissed by the CBI. The first referred to a new rate coming out at 1000 dinars to 1 dollar in June of this year. The CBI flatly denied that this is in their plan and went further to state that “Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions.” By using the word “far” I can only assume that he is stating that the imminent RV will be much higher than 1000 to 1.
[This was posted by me in early March. Nothing has occurred since then to change the situation. In fact, we have found that Shabibi has reduced the 23 trillion dinar money supply by at least 70% since March, meaning that there are less than 7.5 trillion dinars in circulation at this time. In addition the reserves of Iraq have risen to over $53 billion. This means that Iraq currently has over 700% coverage for its outstanding money supply in its reserves. Compare that to the US, which has about 15% coverage for the dollar!
The point is simply this: there is no way that it is in the best interest of Iraq to "lop" the currency. Furthermore, from its own statements they have no intention of doing a "lop". On the contrary, Al-Zubaidi, Saleh, Shabibi, and Maliki are all on record announcing their intention to RAISE the value of the dinar.
More to the point, they have indicated that they will raise the value to what the dinar was in the early 1980s BEFORE Saddam Hussein came to power. The value on the INTERNATIONAL MARKET at that time was $3.33 for the dinar. This is a fact.
Why would anyone assume that they have no intention of doing what they have stated themselves that they intend to do?]
Steve
Response from Expat at Dinar Daddy:
MrRich's Rant from Dinar Dater 9/17/11
I have delayed posting this out of concern for the feedback I will get but I think it's time to get this off my chest. Over the past few months I have grown increasingly concerned about the eventual outcome of this "investment". This year we have seen Ali from Dinar Trade stop selling dinar. The BH Group was raided by the authorities and has discontinued dinar sales. Okie has continued to make nonsensical claims with his endless "intel" that never comes through, even after Roger from Dinar Daddy (who was revealed to have an interest in dinar sales himself) threw him under the bus. Scooter was hounded away from DV and eventually withdrew almost completely from the dinar world. Phoenix said goodbye at DV at the first of the year thinking the RV was imminent and then resurfaced in the summer with his blogtalk program where he has been saying every day how close we are to an RV, only to run out of material when no RV occurred which led to him rambling on about earthquakes, astrology, and the Mayan calendar. Rate and date predictions from "prophet" George Robinson and "guru" SteveI came and went with no RV. Frank is still talking about this "blessing" even though his countdown to RV has long since expired. Meanwhile he has taken advantage of the delay to start a new website and begin selling dinar on his own. The criminal backgrounds of several dinar gurus were revealed. And the "Global Settlements/NESARA" crowd is still out there trying to link the RV to their agenda. It is especially disturbing to me that the dinar world is full of conspiracy nuts, religious fanatics, and con artists as well as your run of the mill idiots. Why aren't there more economists, currency experts, and investment advisors recommending the dinar? (Yeah, I know Adam Montana took the test and is certified to give investment advice. I'll believe that when he reveals his identity and his credentials.) Possibly because they realize just what a long shot this really is. Meanwhile in Iraq bombs are still going off, the political blocs are still fighting, there's still no security minister or HCL law, and we have yet to see the new lower denoms. I'm more convinced every day that this isn't going to turn out the way that I had hoped.
I'm not concerned about the time frame. I never was one of those "RV this week" people, and I've always said it's a long term speculative investment .... probably 2012-2015 before we see the dinar reach parity with the US dollar. What really has me concerned now is that the "experts" (not talking about the TerryK's or Checkmate's here - but people who really seem to understand this subject) for all of their knowledge of the dinar don't seem to really have any better idea what's going on than regular Joe’s like me who knew nothing about currencies 2 years ago and have no boots on the ground or intel to rely on. Early on I was trying to comprehend how Iraq, a nation whose currency had tens of trillions in circulation, could pull off an RV to equal or surpass the value of the USD. I finally decided to invest when it seemed that people who were more knowledgeable than me didn't seem to have concerns about the money supply or Iraq's ability to pull this off. As my confidence in these experts has dwindled I have become more convinced now than at any time since I first bought dinar that this is simply not going to happen.
Disinformation is coming to the dinar community (in my opinion) straight from the top levels of the US and Iraqi governments. (I don't go along with most conspiracy theories but this one I do.) I believe that they have intentionally leaked wrong information to the speculators to keep dinar sales going to help fund the Iraqi government. I can't tell you how many people I have talked to who have been given bad intel from people they truly trust who they see as very successful and well positioned to receive legitimate intel. These people weren't talking to dinar pumpers on the internet. They were talking with friends, family members, or business associates working in fields where they would be expected to have access to people in the know. And yet time and time again they got burned by bad intel. To me it's clearly an orchestrated campaign of disinformation, and so far we're left holding the bag.
I hope I'm wrong and that we see an RV this week of around a dollar, but my feeling right now is that we're probably not going to see any change in value until sometime next year at the earliest, and even then it might not be enough to produce any significant profits for investors once the exchange fees are figured in.
I feel bad for people who are clinging to hope because of their financial situations, but those people need to realize that this probably isn't going to be their solution and they better start looking elsewhere. The dinar isn't your answer!
I hear certain things repeated ad infinitum (and ad nauseum) from various dinar "analysts" that have no basis in fact. Among them ....
• Bush said the war would pay for itself. I have searched for well over a year for evidence that Bush said this and I have only been able to find evidence to support the fact that Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld suggested that Iraq's oil could help to fund the reconstruction of Iraq. If anyone can provide for me an audio, video, or a transcript of a speech where Bush said this (not where somebody simply claimed that he said it) I'd love to see it. This "fact" is repeated often to convince people that there was always a plan in place to RV the dinar after the war to produce a huge windfall to the US government and dinar investors. I'd love for that to be true, but the Bush administration didn't plan much of anything for the post-war phase in my opinion, and unfortunately that includes the future of Iraq's currency. Sure, there was a plan published for the rebuilding of Iraq, but the idea of the existence of "the plan" by the Bush administration to generate trillions for our economy is pure fantasy in my opinion. People who believe in this secret plan also tend to read things into Obama's words about our coming economic turnaround that just aren't there. Obama is a politician and is saying what people want to hear. It doesn't mean he knows that something is up. It just means he's trying to remain positive and sell his program. Nothing more. If he isn't re-elected next year I'm sure the next president will say similar things to keep his poll numbers high.
• Iraq will RV around the value of the Kuwaiti dinar because they are Arabs and Arabs are proud people. They want to make a statement to the world that they are once again a player in the global economy and their currency will make that statement. Excuse me, but aren't the Saudis Arabs too? Aren't they Arabs in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar? And yet their currencies are all valued around $.27. Currencies aren't valued by human characteristics like pride. They are valued based on cold hard facts and economic reality. And the facts in Iraq include a government that is divided, corrupt, and pretty much dysfunctional. It is said that a nation's currency is no better than the government behind it, so what does that tell you about the dinar? The facts also include frequent terrorist attacks. They also include American troops in their streets by the tens of thousands. They also include sectarian division that threatens Iraq with civil war on a constant basis. Given these factors I don't see how Iraq could justify an RV at this time of even $1 let alone $3+.
• Iraq needs to RV at more than $3 because their budget requires it. Currencies aren't valued based on budgetary requirements. When was the last time the US met its budget? We're currently operating with a budget deficit of well over $1 trillion. Why don't we just revalue our currency to the point that we can meet our budget? Because economics doesn't work that way, that's why. DUH!
• The existence of new lower denoms would prove that there will be an RV. WRONG! The new lower denoms, if they even exist, could just as easily be used to supplant (as in "eliminate") the IQD as they could to replace (as in "remove the need for with an RV") the higher denoms. The issue isn't the existence of new lower denoms but how they are defined and valued by the CBI.
• The dinar will be backed by Iraq's oil reserves. This is a huge one, because this determines whether Iraq can significantly RV their currency or will have to settle for a slow, steady climb in value. I used to buy into this because certain people that I considered smarter than me seemed to believe it, but as those people are proven wrong time and time again I find myself questioning now whether oil that is still in the ground could be used to back a nation's currency. When the US backed the dollar with gold did we back it by gold in the ground, or with gold that had already been extracted and was ready for distribution? At the rate that Iraq is going it would take decades to produce the oil needed to RV at the values that many are predicting.
• Banks wouldn't sell the dinar if this was a scam. The "scam" allegations aren't directed at the legitimacy of the currency but at the hype surrounding this toilet paper currency. The hype is so prevalent that many banks that used to offer dinar to people who would be traveling to Iraq have discontinued selling them. And then of course the gurus claim that banks quit selling them because they know it will RV soon. Give me a break!
I could go on and on, but I think you can see where I'm coming from by now. I don't consider the dinar a scam in the sense that it's worthless and has no potential, but the whole "overnight RV to make us rich" scenario is garbage IMO. I went along with it for a while but I'm now convinced that none of us will ever retire based on what we make off of this investment. As Ali said a few months back "this is an investment, not a lottery ticket". (Unfortunately he said that after making millions selling the dinar to people that he knew were expecting an overnight RV to the point that many of them were buying on reserve. DON'T BUY ON RESERVE FOLKS!!!) If we double or triple our money I'm afraid we're going to have to settle for that and move on to the next retirement plan. Best of luck to all. End of rant.
-MrRich
Enorrste's response:
09/19/2011
I seldom take the time to respond to drivel such as this, but since you have asked I will do so. I will also be posting my response to you in our Forum for others to read as well.
The first several paragraphs I actually tend to agree with, so I won’t discuss those in detail.
Disinformation is coming to the dinar community (in my opinion) straight from the top levels of the US and Iraqi governments. (I don't go along with most conspiracy theories but this one I do.) I believe that they have intentionally leaked wrong information to the speculators to keep dinar sales going to help fund the Iraqi government.
Unfortunately the author of this post is doing the same thing that he condemns others for doing. If he claims that “no one knows”, then why is he adding fuel to the fire?
To me it's clearly an orchestrated campaign of disinformation, and so far we're left holding the bag.
It seems to me that this guy has fallen for the very same thing that he is condemning!
I hope I'm wrong and that we see an RV this week of around a dollar, but my feeling right now is that we're probably not going to see any change in value until sometime next year at the earliest, and even then it might not be enough to produce any significant profits for investors once the exchange fees are figured in.
Everyone has a right to their opinion.
• Bush said the war would pay for itself. I have searched for well over a year for evidence that Bush said this and I have only been able to find evidence to support the fact that Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld suggested that Iraq's oil could help to fund the reconstruction of Iraq. If anyone can provide for me an audio, video, or a transcript of a speech where Bush said this (not where somebody simply claimed that he said it) I'd love to see it.
It is unfortunate that this writer spent a year looking for something that I found in about 5 minutes.
Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told a congressional panel that Iraqi oil revenues would help pay for reconstructing the country, i.e. a cost of the war. “The oil revenue of that country could bring between 50 and 100 billion dollars over the course of the next two or three years. We’re dealing with a country that could really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon,” he said.
"One month before the war, then-White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said Iraq 'is a rather wealthy country. … And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction.'"
http://thinkprogress.../rove-iraq-oil/
This article does NOT state that WE will be reimbursed by Iraq’s oil revenue but instead that the RECONSTRUCTION of Iraq will be paid for with oil revenue.
However, as far back as April 3, 2003 it was clear that some people felt that Iraq would pay for the war itself.
Published on Thursday, April 3, 2003 by the Toronto Star
Divvying Up the War Booty in Iraq
by Haroon Siddiqui
"The money will be recovered from future Iraqi oil revenues. Or from those for whom the neighborhood has been made safe from Saddam, principally Israel and Kuwait. Don't be surprised if the Kuwaitis are leaned on for protection money."
http://www.commondre...s03/0403-02.htm
So, who is right, who is wrong, and why? I suspect that it would have been a serious mistake for Bush to state that the eventual RV of the Iraqi dinar would pay for the war. That would have been a “self-defeating” statement in that it would have generated speculation clear back in 2003. So what was said? It was stated that Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the rebuilding of Iraq. That statement will be proven to be true. Our involvement will end, except for private investment.
I am not surprised that the a clear statement from then President Bush can’t be found on this matter.
• Iraq will RV around the value of the Kuwaiti dinar because they are Arabs and Arabs are proud people. They want to make a statement to the world that they are once again a player in the global economy and their currency will make that statement.
The author may not be aware that I have written a book in which I have given a link to an article made as far back as 2007 by Al-Zubaidi, the Minister of Finance, in which it was stated that the goal was to return the Iraqi dinar to the value it held prior to the Hussein regime, which, the article said, was $3.33. Then later in the year Shabibi of the CBI accepted that recommendation. They have been implementing this plan ever since.
• Iraq needs to RV at more than $3 because their budget requires it.
Sorry, I find no evidence that this has ever been stated. It HAS been stated that there are numbers in the budget that imply a higher value than 1170 to 1. However, no where have I seen that the budget REQUIRES an RV. In fact, it seems to me, like the Bush issue above, that if the rate was in the budget, or required by it, then it would be pretty obvious. However, it is NOT obvious. This guy is making a statement without backing.
• The existence of new lower denoms would prove that there will be an RV. WRONG! The new lower denoms, if they even exist, could just as easily be used to supplant (as in "eliminate") the IQD as they could to replace (as in "remove the need for with an RV") the higher denoms.
The existence of the lower denoms has been known since 2003 when they were created. However, it is now 8 years later. So how does this statement make sense? It only makes sense if there was in fact a plan from 2003 to eventually bring the value back to what it was in the early 1980s ($3.33, as Al-Zubaidi stated). So, in that sense, I would guess that the existence IS evidence of an intent to RV at some time. Had they not existed, why would they print them? Answer: because the intend to raise the value of the dinar. This isn’t rocket science. There existence, since 2003, is evidence of the plan, and the plan includes the RV.
• The dinar will be backed by Iraq's oil reserves. This is a huge one, because this determines whether Iraq can significantly RV their currency or will have to settle for a slow, steady climb in value.
This is again a misstated argument. I know of know one who is intelligent on this investment who has made this statement. The fact is that the IMF has made it perfectly clear (about 3 years ago) that they were going to “realign” the world’s currencies based upon the “underlying wealth of the country.” This includes over 100 different elements, including natural resources, manufacturing, tourism, population, actual per capital income, and so on. I’m not making this up. I have seen the 100+ variables. The simple reality is that the IMF is fully aware that there is not enough gold in the world now to support all currencies. So they created a new “gold” standard based on the underlying wealth of countries. Iraq has among the highest amounts of “underlying wealth.” In addition to its oil reserves and natural gas, it also has 2 large rivers running through it, which will make it the agricultural belt of the entire ME. Add to that the fact that they have ACTUAL reserves now over 100 billion dollars (it was $53 billion until they found a cave with all of Saddam’s gold in it – I’ve seen the photo). When all of the funds that have been withheld by the UN during Chapter 7 are returned, we are talking HUGE reserves. Now, if they reduce the money supply to 25 billion dinars (from 25 trillion dinars) as Shabibi said he would do, then they will have over 400% coverage of their money at $1 per dinar, and 100% coverage at $4 per dinar. The US, in contrast, as only 15% coverage of the dollar.
Add to that the “underlying wealth” and I believe Iraq can afford this RV.
• Banks wouldn't sell the dinar if this was a scam. The "scam" allegations aren't directed at the legitimacy of the currency but at the hype surrounding this toilet paper currency. The hype is so prevalent that many banks that used to offer dinar to people who would be traveling to Iraq have discontinued selling them. And then of course the gurus claim that banks quit selling them because they know it will RV soon. Give me a break!
Once again, this author assumes that he has the truth, just because he says so. On our site we have representatives from two dinar trading companies. Both have stated many timed that the banks are having difficulty in obtaining the dinars. This is the reason that they stopped trading them. This has nothing to do with the author’s “theory” that they stopped due to the “hype” factor. There is no evidence of this whatsoever, except in his own mind.
I suspect we should be happy that he didn’t say that the banks thought the dinars was a scam. However, even here he was wrong. Wells Fargo actually made that statement to its own employees! Of course they have since withdrawn it, admitting that it was done to stifle demand from their own employees!
So, we once again come back to the book I wrote almost 18 months ago, not one part of which has been negated. There is a plan, it is progressing, although not as quickly as either we would like or, apparently, as Shabibi would like. But those things are not entirely in his control, and not in our control at all. So we wait.
Steve
MrRich's rebuttal:
9/19/11
So Enorrste decided to respond to my rant, huh? Well he's one of the people I was referring to so I guess it's only fair. If you don't believe me go to his site and download his ebook and read it. You've never read such babbling nonsense in your life I can assure you. For example, here he talks about "Operation Rainbow":
”Rainbow: symbolizing a rainbow connecting Iraq to US-the RV is completed
”Governor of Najaf, confirmed that the bombing of the rainbow of the latest terrorist goal to cause chaos and make media 15 January, 2010 07:28:00 15 January, 2010 07:28:0
”The governor of Najaf, Adnan al in a statement to the rainbow that the latest terrorist bombing in the city caused by a number of devices manufactured locally and aims to cause confusion and make a media and political.
“On the other hand he Zurfi to tighten security measures, including a comprehensive review of the work of the security services may include changing the leadership of some regions, as well as to prevent vehicles from entering certain areas and to identify special places for parking.
”Hassani assure the rainbow: the decline in the export of Iraqi oil caused by a region ”Between a member of the House of Representatives Hadi al-Hassani of the rainbow, the share of Iraq's oil in the fifties of the last century were narrow with lots of Saudi Arabia and Iran in terms of productivity, but wars that the policy pursued by the dictatorial regime and the policy of regional intervention led to the decline in the share of Iraq's oil should have been to Iraq today to issue a total of five million barrels a day.
“On the political position of the hidden and declared to Saudi Arabia from the overall process of political transition in the country; Hassani, the deputy pointed out that Riyadh is opposed to any project renaissance wakes up from the rubble of dictatorship and the ravages of war brought down the debt evidenced by the lack of Iraq's support for the result of the tyranny of unjust wars, as they look to their interests in the region look purely sectarian.”
Another example:
So after consideration it is only plausible that Israel would cooperate with the US in the occupation of Iraq, however secretly. Next, we see that in some "real" sense Operation Rainbow is the child of Israel and not just the US and Iraq alone. This is tacit confirmation of the fact that Israel is cooperating with the US in Iraq. The technique used by the Iraqi government in Operation Rainbow has the "fingerprints" of the Israeli Mosad all over it.
Next we have to understand that all three parties deemed it necessary to stage this false coup attempt. The reasons for doing so are few, but two stand out clearly to me:
First, the obvious reason is to make the Maliki government look efficient, on top of things, and powerful in the drive to create a democratic state.
Second, by the content of the email itself, this event seems to have allowed the
"completion" of the RV.
It seems clear to me that the primary goal of the fake coup is reason number 2 and that reason number 1 is only an ancillary benefit.
And finally:
So we are left with the conclusion that we have fortuitously fallen into the hands of a "real" communiqué. And the communiqué "subject" is that the RV is completed. In my opinion, to summarize, I'm convinced that the public notification of the change in exchange rates is going to be announced in the very near future. We see tickling hints that it is "at the door" from rumor forums as well (banks being notified and such) but have no documentation on which to test their veracity. Still it is encouraging to see that our analysis from a real documents is not only consistent with these rumors but also states the "means" by which their rumors could have validity. In that sense I can say with confidence that we are still way ahead of the curve and that the rumor mills have nothing to compare with the documentation provided here.
This was written in Feb. 2010 folks, over a year and a half ago. Complete with "banks being notified". Supposedly the RV was "at the door".
Okay, now for my response. First, he claims that he found in 5 minutes what I failed to find in a year of searching. Then he proceeds to prove my point that you can't find a quote of Bush saying that the war would pay for itself, resorting to quoting Wolfowitz and others about Iraq's oil possibly paying for the reconstruction of Iraq. Thanks for having my back there, Stevo.
Second, as for returning the dinar to its former value I was not addressing any statements made within the GOI or CBI. I was addressing the logic behind statements from certain gurus that Iraq would come out around the Kuwaiti dinar because of their pride. That lack of reasoning regarding economics is baffling to me. No matter how proud the Iraqis are they still have to assess a value to their currency that is economically feasible, and going from less than a tenth of a penny to over $3 at the flip of a switch simply isn't feasible IMO.
Third, it has been stated numerous times by Randy Koonce and others that Iraq's budget requires them to RV at $3.41. He repeated that claim in his latest conference call over the weekend. You can hear it here.
Fourth,
The existence of the lower denoms has been known since 2003 when they were created. However, it is now 8 years later. So how does this statement make sense? It only makes sense if there was in fact a plan from 2003 to eventually bring the value back to what it was in the early 1980s ($3.33, as Al-Zubaidi stated). So, in that sense, I would guess that the existence IS evidence of an intent to RV at some time. Had they not existed, why would they print them? Answer: because the intend to raise the value of the dinar. This isn’t rocket science. There existence, since 2003, is evidence of the plan, and the plan includes the RV.
Known to whom? What evidence is there that they were printed in 2003? Provide that evidence and I'll concede that there was a plan to RV and then issue these 8 year old LDs. But don't expect me to come to that conclusion just because you or somebody else says they were.
Fifth, Enorrste knows fully well that people are claiming that the dinar will be backed by their oil reserves, because there's simply no other way to arrive at a new value of over a dollar. What? Are they going by their GDP? You can't be serious! Take a look at Iraq's GDP ranking. Bangladesh and Angola have a higher GDP for God's sake!
And finally, I didn't say that all banks that quit selling dinar did so because of the hype. I'm sure some probably had issues with obtaining them but the fact is that many were tired of speculators calling and disrupting their workplace with constant questions based on rumors that they had heard and just decided that it wasn't worth the hassle.
I'm glad you got a pitch in for your book, Stevo. I encourage everybody to download it and read it for themselves. Maybe then they'll understand what I was referring to by the wackjobs involved in this investment. End of response.
-MrRich
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I try to be optimistic about a monumental return and pray that the CBI is giving everyone a head fake with their numbers, but when I read a post like this, I realize that it may just be a pipe dream. This post gives no answers and only raises more questions. There are far too many to address here, so I’ll keep it simple. It simply amazes me how this guy spouts off theories and conjecture as fact and then questions the reasonableness of those who question him. Before you give me the thumbs down, be objective and not emotional…and ask yourself this:
As Enorrste points out, the CBI has $53 Billion in foreign currency reserves, which as he states is 700% (7 times) the value of the IQD in circulation (7.5 trillion according to him). Then he points out that the US only has 15% in reserves to back up the dollar it has out, Now, he points this out as if it is the proof in the pudding.
If all that is true and the CBI RVs to a rate of 1:1 to the USD…then they will have $53 billion to back up $7.5 trillion. That is less than 1% (0.7% to be precise) compared to our 15%. At $3.33 you can triple the difference, which makes it even more unlikely. These are his numbers, not mine.
Here is my question: Enorrste points out that the Iraqis all say they want a stronger currency– a point with which I agree — however, how is this accomplished by setting a rate that reduces the percentage of foreign currency reserves they have to back up the Dinar from 700% to 0.0021%, which is what will happen if they RV to $3.33 as Enorrste states they will?
I’m not saying there will or will not be a LOP. I am only saying that Enorrste has no idea what he is talking about.