Monday, December 2, 2013

Dinar Fraud Case Dismissed

I just got got word about this case being dismissed on a technicality.  It looks like they intend to re-indict.  I'll update as more info comes in.

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Federal indictments charging three Toledo businessmen with duping investors out of millions of dollars in the sale of Iraqi currency and hedge fund shares were dismissed Wednesday on a technicality.
U.S. District Court Judge Jack Zouhary dismissed the indictments against Bradford L. Huebner, 66, of Ottawa Hills; Charles Emmenecker, 66, of Sylvania, and Michael Teadt, 67, of Maumee citing speedy trial concerns raised by defense attorneys for the trio. Their case had been scheduled to go to trial Monday.
Mike Tobin, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office, said the development has delayed the trial again.
“We fully intend to seek to re-indict this case at the earliest possible time,” Mr. Tobin said. “It was surprising to see defendants who were repeatedly asking for delays in their trial date complaining that their trial was not speedy enough.”
Attorney Rick Kerger, who represents Mr. Huebner, said the defense team was prepared to go to trial next week, but wanted to raise the speedy trial violation before trial rather than after.
“When we became aware that there existed a basis to obtain a dismissal of the indictment, we were really duty-bound to raise it,” Mr. Kerger said.
While it was the defense that asked for several continuances in their clients’ cases, Mr. Kerger said the court did not use the required language in granting the continuances, which resulted in the dismissal.
“Nobody’s implying any bad faith on the part of the government, the court, or anybody, and it is a technicality, but it is a technicality that is sufficiently important that led to the dismissal of the indictment,” Mr. Kerger said.
Judge Zouhary granted the dismissal “regretfully.”
“As should be obvious, this court is most reluctant to grant this motion, which only serves to delay, not speed, the trial of this case,” he wrote in a 10-page opinion. “Defendants, on the eve of trial, filed a motion to dismiss knowing a dismissal will likely result in another indictment which will restart the clock.
“For what purpose? To delay the inevitable trial? How does this make sense?” he asked.
Mr. Heubner, the owner of BH Group, 17 N. St. Clair St., and two of his employees — Mr. Teadt and Mr. Emmenecker — had been charged with conspiring to defraud investors in the sale of Iraqi currency, called dinar, and in the sale of hedge fund shares between August, 2010, and September, 2012, resulting in losses of more than $23 million.
A fourth co-defendant, Rudolph M. Coenen, 47, of Jacksonville pleaded guilty last April to conspiracy to commit wire fraud, wire fraud, and five counts of money laundering. The owner of Bayshore Capital Investments LLC in Jacksonville, Coenen has not been sentenced.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Courts/2013/11/28/Iraqi-currency-case-tossed.html#TZEHvg44fMTPMTJy.99




55 comments:

  1. Good. Take your time judge and then fry their asses.

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  2. I have a question I only found this site today after listening to my dad go on and on about what he plans to do with his 165 million. I decided to do research which I would have thought he would have done before buying this crap but apparently not! He and my mom are horrible with money and need to get on a budget rather than waiting for this ship to come in since its never going to happen. He is so far in I'm actually afraid to show him all the stuff I found proving this is a scam. Is there a link you could share directly discrediting Okie and Tony that's who he follows. Maybe he would believe that. Also you talk about a buy back is it possible he could get his money back? He is part of a "group rate" and I got a phone call from him today while he was at work stating the 800 numbers would be released today obviously this isn't going to happen just giving a example of how far in this he is. Thank you for this site!

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    1. Hi Celeste. Sorry to hear that your folks got caught up in this rubbish. You can read about Tony's pending fraud case here. https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/Kansas_District_Court/2--12-cr-20041/USA_v._Renfrow_et_al/1/ I don't have a similar link for Okie, but you can read what he said in the past on my page "What'd I Say?" Good luck.

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    2. Celeste.
      My first thought when I read your dad expects $165 million was one of shock. If he's expecting the dinar to rv to 1:1 then that means he's holding 165 million dinar which mean he has $165 thousand invested in this scam.
      Then I see you say he follows Tony and Okie, which is pretty hard to believe because even most dinar diehards think those two are full of crap. Tony is predicting a $30 per dinar RV. So with that math your father has about 5.5 million dinar, or about $5 thousand at risk .
      There's a big difference there. If I thought my parents were losing $5k in a scam I'd certainly try to talk to them about it, especially if losing even $5K is a big deal to them. If I thought they were losing 165K to a scam, I'b be going ballistic.

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    3. Hello Celeste. I just want to piggy back off of Sam's link by providing a link about Tony's brother Ray (Raymond) Renfrow who was found guilty of fraudulently preparing taxes in excess of $1 million in their home state NC. Although this is not Tony directly your father may discredit it, but what he cannot discredit is that Tony used to have his brother on his PTR calls all the time at least when they were free and I chimed in a few times. His brother was supposed to be the tax pro Tony would push. Like Tony, Ray was involved with multi-level network marketing schemes and I would not be surprised if Tony was part of that company.

      Good luck with convincing.

      http://www.justice.gov/tax/txdv09219.htm

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    4. Hello Celeste. It breaks my heart to hear about your parents. Unfortunately, if they're anything like family members of mine who are still involved with this scam, there is not much you can do. I tried several times to make them aware of the folly. I advised them of the shady nature and background of many of the clowns (including Tony) and they dismissed it as "gossip". We had several heated discussions that just ended with us being mad at each other. There is a stubborness and arrogance involved with this scam that I haven't seen before. The talons of greed have dug themsleves so far into these people that I'm not sure they can be extracted. Rather than risk destroying the relationship any further, I've resigned myself to letting it run it's course. We simply don't talk about it. I know, eventually, they will come around and see the light (although it could be a LONG time). Like your family, they have also been suckered into buying other currencies. I have no idea how much they've spent but I know it's a lot. As much as it pains me to see them act so frivolously, they are adults. All you can do is try to warn them. If they choose to ignore the information and warnings, they do so at their own peril. They will suffer the (financial and emotional) consequences, not you.

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    5. Hey networth try this tactic on them. It will at least get a laughter. Tell them well when it happens prove me wrong and make me feel bad by purchasing me a brand new BMW 755i. But just don't sell your current vehicle. LOL

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  3. So will the site he purchased from really buy it back? Honestly he is so far in I don't think he will believe me but at least I'm trying.

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  4. They should buy it back for around 800 per million. A far cry from the 1200 he probably paid.

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  5. He thinks the rates are around 35 but the also talked him into buying zibawa money so he is calculating that in as well when he figures his 165 million as well. Which he is supposed to be able to cash in at the same time as the dinar. I think he is in it for about 800 from what my mom had told me.

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    1. You may want to walk him through xe.com or any reputable currency sites that have official current rates to display to him that the HIGHEST rate in the world is Kuwait at $3.53 which is what you would pay if you were buying KWD. That is not the sell back rate. Also, have take him through the CBI's site (http://cbi.iq/index.php?pid=History) which shows the HIGHEST the dinar rate has been BUT keep in mind that was for non-triple zero notes. I must say this because it is important and Sam already covers it on this site. The $3 rate is a very far cry from what they can expect if it ever happens. 'IF' and that's a BIG IF, it ever got to $3 it would be way way way down the road when the triple zero notes are gone. He won't be able to cash out the current notes I can almost guarantee. Many of the dealers are beginning to walk away or speak in lingo that is restrictive. Some of the bigger and older ones claim they will still exchange them but you better believe it will be at a greater loss then now.

      Then have him watch several episodes of "American Greed". It may get his mind in the correct frame of thought.

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  6. Zimbabwe currency? At one point Zimbabwe had a note with 50 trillion face value. If your dad thinks he is going to get rich by purchasing that currency (or any currency for that matter) then it sounds like a simple case of education lack on the subject of hyperinflation. Have him study redenominations for a start.

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    1. Actually, they had a note with face value of 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars. You can still buy them as a novelty at the local coin shop here for about $6. At one point, inflation was over 1,000,000,000% a year. Absurd isn't it?

      I believe Zimbabwe now uses the US dollar as its official currency. I didn't even think they had a local currency. If they do, nobody uses it and nobody trusts it (except maybe some gullible suckers in the US).

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  7. Thank you all for your help. He has been glued to the computer since yesterday morning because 800 numbers are supposed to be coming out no later than last night and obviously they haven't

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  8. They haven't, and they never will, because it's all a nonsensical scam.

    Unfortunately, the fact that he believes an increase in value to 30 dollars plus, and follows Okie and Tony (two of the most insane and unbelievable scammers in this fraud) indicates that he is VERY far gone. It's virtually impossible to talk sense into the people that believe in a 3 dollar RV, so you can imagine how tough it'd be when someone has become so divorced from reality that they believe in a 35 dollar RV.

    I don't think there's a snowballs chance, but I'd say your best shot would be to google "Dinar" and "John Jagerson" and let him read some of his articles or watch his videos, and remind him that Jagerson is a world renown currency and investment expert with a Harvard education and multiple books published, while the types of guys your dad is listening to are mostly internet and MLM hucksters with no pertinent education or background.

    But, like I said, it's a million to one shot that he'll listen to reason.

    To be honest, it's actually better that he has bought into the insane 35 dollar rate, because it means it's likely he won't "invest" more than a couple grand. It's the guys that believe in the "more realistic" (still completely impossible, in reality) 10 cent rate that are pulling a hundred grand out of their 401k and putting it into dinar, meaning they'll probably lose tens of thousands instead of the hundreds or thousands your dad is virtually guaranteed to lose.

    Based on the imagined 165 million dollar return I'd guess that the 800 dollar figure your mother gave you is likely low. As has been pointed out, it'd take over 5 grand worth of dinar to equal 165 million even at a 30 dollar RV, and even if he'd bought all Vietnamese Dong at 70 dollars per million and thought it was going to RV to 3 dollars, that wouldn't come close to 165 million.

    But given the mention of Zimbabwe currency, that could make up the difference for his 165 million, and indicate he really does only have 800 bucks invested.

    As naive as you have to be to fall for the 30+ dinar value, people buying Zimbabwe currency are even worse, to be brutally honest. The Zimbabwean dollar isn't even a valid currency anymore, Zimbabwe doesn't even use it, they use foreign currencies like the US dollar, Euro, South African Rand, etc. Any Zimbabwe currency is worth absolutely nothing, except as a curiosity, and before it was demonitized at one point it took something like 50 billion dollars to buy a single egg.

    Regarding selling it back, it can be (except for probably the Zimbabwe currency, which could probably only be sold on eBay as a collector's item). Banks almost universally won't deal in the dinar, but it can be sold on eBay, or to someone on a dinar site, or some of the dinar dealers will buy back. It's likely he'll lose 20-40%, depending on when he purchased it. If he has any Vietnamese Dong you might still be able to exchange that at a legitimate bank or legitimate foreign currency exchange, I think for around 45 USD per million.

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    1. No he is strictly Dinar and the one zimbabwe which I'm looking at and is a two hundred million dollar bill. My problem is when I brought it up he says there are just as many sites saying its not a scam that there are saying it is. My hope is that they don't buy anymore and he pries himself from the computer he has been sitting at for days awaiting for the 800 numbers

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  9. Celeste, here is a very old article from 2004 from the U.S. Treasury speaking of the stability of the Iraqi Dinar with the rates, security of the note and the new notes then. This is part of the storyline the gurus / pumpers / dealers have used to justify what appears to be plausible. I'm willing to bet your father is going to say that it's such an old article that it is irrelevant. Well, information is only gold to the wise beholder. That being said it is 50/50 chance he may believe it.

    http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2004/10/20041024164942wcyeroc0.7832147.html#axzz2mTpbe2Fb

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    1. I forgot to include the opposite guru / pumper twisted argument as I mentioned before. This is how they take old news and make it current with a spike to the punch to get you tipsy and happy.

      http://www.dinarrecaps.com/1/post/2011/09/billions-over-baghdad.html


      Here is the "Billions Over Baghdad" operation that you may or may not recall back then.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/opinion/27taylor.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


      Read them both and compare notes between them. You'll get a kick out of the stupidity.

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  10. Celeste, a lot of this is debunked by common sense and basic maths. Example:-

    "Tony is predicting a $30 per dinar RV."

    LOL. "1 Dinar = $30" when there are 84tn Dinar in circulation = a $ value of $2,520tn. Problem is, the whole global economy is only worth about $75-80tn... If you want proof of Tony's BS, then Tony's "Iraq will possess 31-33x planet Earth worth of money" pretty much tops the lot as far as self-discrediting gibberish goes. Every countries economy on Earth combined can obviously only ever = 1 planet Earth sized global economy.

    Iraq's real economy consists of exporting approx 2.5m barrels of oil per day (though this year it even fell to just over 2m). In Sept this year, Iraq exported just 62.1m barrels of oil (2.07m barrels per day (bpd), the lowest daily average since February 2012). With average oil prices of $100, even a peak 2.5m barrels works out to a peak of $91bn oil revenue per year ($100 x 2.5m barrels x 365 days, keeping things simple and excluding downtime for maintenance).

    Even if Iraq pumped 100% of oil revenue into CBI reserves backing the Dinar, Tony's $2,520tn ($2,520,000bn) supposed RV would require an absurd 27,692 years worth of Iraqi oil sales to buy enough $ to support a Dinar at that rate. That's how whacked out delusional that figure really is. Except it wouldn't because most of Iraq's oil revenue pays for it's govt workers salaries, and is unavailable for currency reserves. In fact Iraq is already running a budget deficit this year even with a previously predicted 3m exported barrels which it has failed to meet. And oil isn't even sold in Dinar anyway.

    Even at the lower more common 3.5:1 rate, that's a $ value of 84tn Dinar x 3.5 = $294tn ($294,000bn). That divided by $94bn oil revenue per year = it would still take 3,127 years for Iraq to sell enough oil to "raise" enough $ to support it at that rate.

    Even at 1:1 ($84tn), it would still take 893 years for Iraq to sell enough oil to "raise" enough $ to support it at that rate. No matter what "rate" gets picked, the whole thing is delusional to the core.

    You also might want to read through this thread and witness another deluded "guru" get his *ss handed to him.

    I agree with the others though - the Dinar thing has gone from being a confused "investment" into a religious cult run by "viral marketers". The issue is not an available lack of information, but rather a wilful ignorance of clinging to an empty promise by a stranger on the net out of blind greed, and "reinforced" by confirmation bias (seeing/reading/hearing only what they want to see/read/hear).

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    1. There's also the "elephant in the room" : If the Dinar moved 1,000x vs every other currency - that's the same effect as if the Dinar remained static but EVERYONE else DEVALUED their currency by 1,000x!

      REDENOMINATION : If something in Iraq costs 10,000 Dinar ($8.59 @ current 1164:1), and Iraq redenominates the Dinar to 1.164:1, then its price will have 3 zeros lopped to 10 Dinar and be exchanged internationally at 1.164:1. It will still cost $8.59 both inside Iraq and its international exported value. This is what both Iraq & non-Iraqi's who trade with Iraq WANT to happen. And what Iraq has repeatedly announced they will eventually do in reality.

      ---

      "RV" DELUSION : But if something in Iraq costs 10,000 Dinar ($8.59 @ 1164:1), and it "revalues" 1:1 vs the $ without any redenomination the way the pumpers are scamming (arbitrarily declare the currency 1,000x more valuable, everything else stays the same, no "lop"), then its price will remain at 10,000 Dinar inside Iraq (due to no 3-digit currency redenomination / lop) and yet the new exchange rate will be 1:1. This means it will now cost $10,000 to purchase 10,000 Dinar to import an $8.59 product from Iraq (which still costs only $8.59 to import the same product from say Jordan or Turkey whose currencies wouldn't have moved 99,000% vs the $) due to a fake 1,164x artificial "RV" over-peg!

      - If Iraq "RV" to 3:1 ($1 = 3 IQD), guru's are arguing that non-Iraqi's will now pay $3,333 to buy 10,000 Dinar to import an $8.59 product which is still only $8.59 everywhere else on Earth due to a fake 388x "RV" over-peg!

      - If Iraq "RV" to 10:1 ($1 = 10 IQD), guru's are arguing that non-Iraqi's will now pay $1,000 to buy 10,000 Dinar to import an $8.59 product which is still only $8.59 everywhere else due to a fake 116x "RV" over-peg!

      - If Iraq "RV" to 100:1 ($1 = 100 IQD), guru's are arguing that non-Iraqi's will now pay $100 to buy 10,000 Dinar to import an $8.59 product which is still only $8.59 everywhere else due to a fake 11.6x "RV" over-peg!

      - If Iraq "RV" to 1:3 rate (1 IQD = $3), guru's are arguing that non-Iraqi's will now pay $30,000 to buy 10,000 Dinar to import an $8.59 product which is still only $8.59 everywhere else due to a fake 3,492x "RV" over-peg!

      - If Iraq "RV" to 1:30 rate (1 IQD = $30), guru's are arguing that non-Iraqi's will now pay $300,000 to buy 10,000 Dinar to import an $8.59 product which is still only $8.59 everywhere else due to a fake 34,920x "RV" over-peg!

      No matter what absurd "rate" pumpers advertise for an "RV" - 1:3, 1:1, 3:1, 3.33;1, 5:1, 19:1, 100:1 - the entire "logic" & maths behind it are a joke that don't even begin to add up. The export vs domestic prices don't add-up with either each other or the global market for the same goods in peer countries! The "RV" argument is complete junk that attempts to create a Communist banana-republic "dictated" rate with a massive artificial split between domestic & prices of exported goods almost completely divorced from reality! The exchange rates ALWAYS have to match BOTH ways or the loser simply wouldn't use the currency for trade, and the only way is via a redenomination which resets prices & money supply by the exact inverse factor as the currency grows in strength. This is why the redenomination / "Lop" process exists in the first place - To allow countries to neutralize all that past inflation without screwing up everything else.

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    2. Hi, new here and THRILLED to find this site!

      Brian I tried essentially the same argument on my cousin (more about him later) but he just dismissed it and pointed out that the Dinar was worth more than $3 in the past so my point had no merit. I could not counter his view on that one because at that point I was a bit "bumfuzzled" as to how to better explain so would you care to explain this a little more to me and how going to $3 now is different than being $3 in the past?

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    3. I think I need to be a bit more clear about that, I am talking about going to $3 AFTER a RD, I fully understand how ridiculous a $3 exchange rate would be with even one trillion Dinar in circulation never mind nearly 80 trillion!

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    4. dwm009 - In short, the Dinar was "worth" $3 decades ago for the same reason you could also buy a 3-bedroom house for $20,000, or a new large family car for $2,000 in decades past, but cannot do so today. It's basically inflation. That's the whole "RV" argument in a nutshell - try and "pretend" Iraq hasn't experienced any inflation whatsoever, that it's still 1971, and that it "must" have fallen for some "secret" reason that 99.999% of humanity is "too stupid" to see but those who read the "right" web forums "know" the "truth". The truth is the exact opposite.

      It's pretty absurd given the Central Bank of Iraq's own website states in plain English : "Due to excessive government printing of the new notes issue, the dinar devalued quickly...". In fact it wasn't really even "worth" $3 as that was Saddam's dictated peg which the market ignored (just as everyone ignores North Korea's declared worthless over-peg today).

      "Delete 3 zeroes" literally means 1166:1 -> 1.166:1. It won't "jump" up from 1.166:1 to $3 after an RD/lop for no reason and it's only frantic desperation by a few trying to "keep the dream alive" who keep pumping that figure like a mantra.

      The $3.5 "rate" is little more than confused nostalgia. Simply looking up the value of any currency decades ago and declaring it "must" be that today is just ignorance of what inflation is. It's the absurd equivalent of yelling "Obama's going to RV the US Dollar 6,000% because if my grandad bought a gold coin for $20 back in the 70's, then so must I today" or walking into a gas station with a 30 year old receipt for a gallon of gas for $0.35 and demanding the same prices today... Amazingly some RV-addicts genuinely believe America is the only country on the planet which suffers from inflation...

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    5. While I am not at all defending Tony or any of those buffoons, I believe what he is trying to tell these gullible people with those astronomical numbers is "look how ridiculous my numbers are but if you elect to keep listening to my storyline then I've got your number." That's how scammers operate. They throw out preposterous information to see if and where it sticks. If it doesn't then move on, but if it does then you know you've struck a chord. Tony can't possibly believe his own story. As you can see he is boasting in that stupid picture with his cigars basically saying "I'm living large with your $$$... Thanks suckers!!!"

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    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    7. Brain says "RV" DELUSION : But if something in Iraq costs 10,000 Dinar ($8.59 @ 1164:1), and it "revalues" 1:1 vs the $ without any redenomination the way the pumpers are scamming (arbitrarily declare the currency 1,000x more valuable, everything else stays the same, no "lop"), then its price will remain at 10,000 Dinar inside Iraq"

      This is a faulty analysis as if the exchange rate is changed prices of course change as well. More accurately the rate of price change slows usually, which is why slightly raising the exchange rate (e.g. a few percent over months) is a method (that Iraq has used) to fight inflation. So if the mythical giant RV occurred all prices would crash (which is of course why contracts specified in dinars are a huge problem).

      DMW: The myth that after the RV US dinar holders will be paid off by the UST or Fed is silly of course as it invariably has Iraq selling oil for 1/3 of its market price. But I would suggest letting that go, and instead focusing on the IQD in Iraq. Its false that this is irrelevant even if the silly myth about how US holders will be paid off, since that is what the CBI has to cover no matter what happens to US IQD holders. Importers in Iraq exchange around 250B IQD per day, 5 days a week. At $3 per 1 IQD the very first days dollar demands would be ~9 times what the CBI has in reserves an about 5 or 6 years worth of oil sales. Even if you figure that exchanges for imports will fall over time, there certainly will be a big buying spree for a few days, weeks, or months. No banker will do anything that would render their institution insolvent in one day. Its simply impossible.

      Overall a pegged rate (using Iraq as an example) in USD per IQD is limited by

      size of foreign reserves in USD
      ------------------------------------------ = max exchange rate
      size of money supply in IQD

      It can always be less, but not more. You can legitimately debate if M1 or M2 needs to be covered. The more of a penalty is in place to prevent on demand withdrawal from funds in M2 only (i.e. beyond M1) the more you can argue that only M1 needs to be covered (Kuwait for example with a sophisticated financial sector covers something between M1 and M2). But for Iraq it doesn't matter much as the instruments in their M2 beyond M1 are not that sophisticated or that large as M2 is "only" about 10T larger than M1. This limit prevents a rise to $3 even after an 1000:1 RD since they would need ~$240B in reserves and they only have ~$80.

      Like you and Dinarck I got tired of making new IDs at DV and just let it go (Over a couple of years or so I was jg167, joe friday, makecents, xyzzy, engineer1138, and skeptic1138 ).

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  11. I have a cousin who is hopelessly involved in this bunk, he introduced me to Dinar and was determined to get me involved, I admit I was at least interested at first BUT then (being the skeptical sort that I am) I did a bit research and the truth became obvious! This fella has never been financially secure but he has spent ridiculous amounts of money on Dinar and has pestered everyone he knows to do the same, most have tried in vain to tell him it's a scam but he refuses to believe it. The sad part is about 6 months ago when his mother passed she left him what should have been his first real chance at financial security (he is 63 years old now) but there is no doubt in my mind this idiot has given this money, that took his mother a lifetime to save, to dinar dealer/scammers! To talk to this guy about anything besides dinar he appears to be perfectly normal and certainly not the type to fall for a scam but a good friend of his introduced him to the nonsense and the internet did the rest and now he is hopelessly involved. He truly believes he is about to become a multimillionaire any day now and has made some other financial decisions based on this that have caused him a lot of grief, basically spending money he didn't have because he fully expected to "Cash-in on Monday"!

    What get's hold of otherwise normal people that would make them do stupid things like this?

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  12. When are "RV" addicts going to grasp the diffrence of undervalued and hyperinflated?


    I'm sure Dinarck is watching so I will ask Dinarck or Mr Rich 'do you believe that the current market rate of the Iraqi dinar is severely undervalued?'

    Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166932-deputy-for-the-citizen-raise-zeros-reflects-the-image-of-the-development-of-the-iraqi-economy/#ixzz2mVzf42Wg

    Ummmm.....no I dont think the market rate is undervalued. Market rate is dictacted by demand for the currency and obviously the US dollar is in much higher demand in Iraq. So dinarbeliever....Iraqis dont even want dinar even though your translator says that Iraq is announcing an upcoming 100,000% overnight "RV" on TV. LOL.

    Dinarbeliever.....all you have to do is spend a quarter of the time studying hyperinflation than you do browsing the rumor section at DV and you will soon understand how currencies work. The dinar is not undervalued. It is valued exactly where it should be based off the relation between the amount of dinar in existence and the reserves that back it. Its simple math that is ignored by dinar junkies so that their conspiracy theories on how much dinar has been "pulled" from circulation can win the day.

    Hyperinflated currencies are not preffered by the people who use them for the simple fact that it takes stacks of it to buy a pair of shoes. The math is frustrating and the amount that they have to carry is frustrating. For this reason 1 US dollar can buy something like 1220 dinar inside of Iraq. That isnt undervalued. That is valued based off of demand for USD which Iraqis prefer for its convienence. Of course all of this will probably be fixed with a redenomination putting the dinar on par with the dollar or close to it. Does that make sense or do you think you have to become multirich overnight no matter what?

    Dinarbeliever, I know that you have been brainwashed to believe that Iraq is the wealthiest country in history and probably believe all of the ignorance about the US dollar crashing and making the dinar a super reserve currency ( I know your buddy Easyrider does) which should mean that the dinar should be valued at what ever number you say they should be. The facts are that Iraq is a backwards dirt hole with 30 million unskilled workers who will probably never see a real economy in 4 generations to come. All they can do is continue to pump oil (with our help) and remain economic peons for decades.

    Maybe its time you faced reality and learn how currency actually works and cease with the constant hype of an impossible economic outcome.

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    1. If dinarbeliever is checking in for responses, here's some information for him.

      There is no question that the dinar is valued fairly. As published by the CBI, Iraq has an M2 of 85 trillion dinar! That's not an opinion or supposition. That's an actual, verifiable fact! That's 85 trillion currency units! Iraq also has currency reserves valued at about $75 billion (also verifiable). The official exchange rate of the dinar is not determined by the foreign currency exchange markets. The CBI sets the exchange rate every day at auction. How does the CBI determine the exchange rate? Simple. Total currency units divided by foreign currency reserves which equals about 1,166 Iraqi dinar for 1 US dollar (give or take a few dinar).

      Is the dinar hyperinflated? Based on the total number of currency units that have been produced it is. Obviously, if there were only 85 billion currency units produced and the foreign currency reserves were the same, each dinar could be worth 86 cents or so. But reducing the number of currency units from 85 trillion to 85 billion requires elimination of more than 99% of existing dinar. It's impossible (without demonitization).

      Based on the rate that the CBI is creating new currency units, the dinar is not hyperinflated. The CBI has been increasing the number of currency units 8-10% every year. Not surprisingly, inflation has been running 6-10% per year in Iraq. That is high but certainly wouldn't be considered hyperinflation. But the reason the dinar has not lost purchasing power (that is, the auction rate has stayed the same) is because foreign currency reserves have also been increasing 8-10% per year.

      In a nation with an annual GDP of $210 billion (another verifiable fact), there is absolutely no way they can support a money supply that is valued at 4 times higher than their GDP. And if the the dinar is revalued to even 1 cent each, that's exactly what would exist. It simply can't be supported. That's not an opinion. It's a mathematical certainty. Iraq would have to confiscate the entire production of the nation for 4 years just to support the value of the currency. It is an impossibility. It's like trying to drive your car from the office to home and arriving at home before you left the office! In the real world, the laws of mathematics can't be violated no matter how hard you try. Maybe in the universe of dinaria it's possible, but thatt's not the universe in which we all exist. Enjoy spending all your imaginary money!

      Delete
  13. Hi Dinarck! I am really pleased to find you here! I really enjoyed your posts on DV but I could not reply to any of them since like you I too had the honor of being banned and I had no interest in joining again, after talking with a few of the people I met there I know I got through to at least a couple of them before being banned and I also had all my posts deleted so I guess I must have been doing something right. My last offense was to question that dummy Sonny1 (HI there Sonny!!!) about his absurd assertion that the newly revalued Dinar would not have to be backed by Dollars but would be backed by the new higher value Dinar! Ok the Dinar is going to be backed by more Dinar???????? That's so dumb I don't think he could possibly have believed it but then from reading some other things he said maybe he did? Anyway I just laughed at them then just as I do now and found it quite comical that when I was banned a few of them were high fiving each other for again banning someone who had been banned previously but they were of course wrong about that just as they were/are wrong about almost everything else!

    I joined that goofy site after trying to convince my cousin that what he was doing is a dead-end, I guess it was more out of frustration than anything else and I wanted to try to address at least some of the non-sense being spouted there. I was (and still am not) all that well informed on the economics of this so after being banned from DV I did little more than be a lurker on some of the forums, I couldn't take the stupidity of any of them except DV which at least did allow a tiny bit of truth even if it was/is pretty much censored. Then I stumbled onto this forum and after being a lurker here too for a long time I decided to join this discussion and ask Brian that question.

    Anyway it's good to see you here and see that you are still in the fight, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BRO!!!


    And of course MANY THANKS TO SAM for making this possible and Sam it might please you to know I found this site from something I read at DV, I wonder how many others have made their way here from DV? "Adam" and company are doing their damnedest to keep this place quiet at DV but to no avail, the "cat-is-out-of-the-bag" and more and more people are coming here and learning the truth.

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    1. dwm - It does make me happy to know that people are catching on. My reason for starting this blog was pretty simple. I wanted to build a site that provided the informaiton I needed when I was looking for answers. Guys like Dinarck and Brian were doing a good job discussing the dinar on other forums, but I felt that it would be a good idea to have all the necessary information in one location. It appears to be working as the scammers' numbers are down and mine are up. Welcome aboard.

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    2. Welcome DWM. Its good to have you here. DV is becoming more and more empty except for the few paid shills to keep hype alive like Dontlop who pumps lies like the swiss dinar RVed massively and Kuwait RVed too. He knows its all bogus but its his job to state lies until they become excepted as truth. He then finds pointless dribble to post in long winded links to keep the illusion of a RV possibility alive. He does all of this while Adam and his mods censor Dontlops opposition and bans them if too much truth is coming from their post. Thats really what DV is all about and you are right, more and more people are starting to see it for what it is. A scam sight that is suckering people out of money by promising services based off a nonexistent event.

      Delete
    3. Its working Sam. This topic has got over 30 comments. Your catching up with Okie! I also think that Tony TNT is helping us with his $30 lies.

      Delete
  14. When your cousin brings up that Iraq was once over $3, remind him that Iraq had only 20 billion dinar at that time with $60 billion in FX reserves to back it up. They backed every one of those dinar 100% with reserves.
    They now have about 80 Trillion dinar with only about 80 Billion in reserves. It explains perfectly why the rate is currently in the 1000 range. The IMF even stated that the dinar was fairly valued exactly where it is.
    Tell him that they can return to a 1:1 rate, but they will have to reduce the 80 Trillion back to 80 Billion to match the $80 billion in reserves. They will do that by requiring everyone exchange their current dinar for a new dinar. They will only receive 1 new dinar for every 1000 they turn in. That is a redenomination. It is also called "remove 3 zeros". 1000 becomes 1. 3 zeros gone. 80 Trillion will become 80 Billion, 3 zeros gone. Only the new dinar will be worth $1, the current dinar he holds will not change in value.

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    1. Yes I understand about the 80 trillion vs about 75 Billion backing it but he has bought into the absurd assertion that the UST will be buying his Dinar for oil credits so Iraq's money in circulation does not matter. Never mind that it's private industry (Big oil) that imports the oil and the US Government in not in the oil business (along with a dozen other good reasons why the UST buying Dinar is ridiculous) he still believes that BS! Rather what I was trying to get across is that Iraq is not, contrary to popular belief, feverishly trying to raise the exchange rate to $3+ in order to make themselves rich and I was trying to give reasons as to why they are leaving the rate as it is now and that an exchange rate of $3 or so does not automatically increase their wealth and make the average Iraqi rich.


      Over at DV the two things that are the most absurd to me are the statements about the US Government using Dinar to import oil after "the" RV and all those dummies cheering the numerous Re-denomination articles as if deleting the zeros is a good thing! I am convinced that most, but not all, actually realize that deleting the zeros means a LOP and it's really bad for them but they pretend these articles are good news anyway. The last LOP article there a couple of weeks ago was cheered as GREAT NEWS and then the immediately following articles from Iraq denying it was going to happen any time soon was derided as "Iraq can't do anything right"! I was disappointed that this cheering for a LOP went unchallenged by the few there with any brains but I suppose they have to watch their step if they want to stay, anyway it's pathetic to see some of these people cheer-leading for a LOP and regardless of whether they actually know better or not it's like watching the condemned cheer on the executioner and they seem to be totally blind to what they are actually doing.

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    2. The UST won't be doing anything. As you said, it's private corporations that import oil (for $ not Dinar). I swear the way that some people believe govts not only regulate things, but "should" 100% own & control everything in one big centrally planned economy, confiscating private banknotes, arbitrarily dictating the price of this or that means half the people on Dinar forums must be die-hard communists ;-) Much of this stuff is just frantic made-up fantasies to try and "explain" the imaginary "RV" (which is why it changes from one month to another).

      On the subject of oil, here's a few more facts you'll never see on "RV" forums:-

      1. Iraqi oil is more expensive to import than South American oil (typically $104.01 per barrel for Iraq vs $100.59 for Venezuela):-

      Cost of imported Crude Oil by Country:-
      http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/marketing/monthly/pdf/pmmtab21.pdf

      2. Less than 3.7% of America's oil gets imported from Iraq, and less than 12% of Iraq's exported oil goes to the USA:-

      Net Imports of Crude Oil into the USA by Country (thousand barrels per day):-


      7,812k Total
      4,122 Non-OPEC
      3,690 OPEC (of which Iraq sells 287k barrels of oil)

      - 287k barrels of Iraqi oil imported out of 7,812k barrels = only 3.7% of America's imported oil comes from Iraq.

      - 287k barrels of Iraqi oil exported to the USA out of 2.5m barrels total exported = just 11.5% goes to America.

      http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/monthly/pdf/table53.pdf

      3. 287k barrels of oil imported from Iraq per day x 365 days x $100 oil price = $10.5bn per year. That's the total value of all the oil the USA imports from Iraq every year. So it would take roughly 8,000 years for the USA to import enough oil with mythical "oil credits" for Iraq just for a 1:1 "RV". A "$3.5 rate" would take 28,000 years. A "$30 rate" would take 240,000 years...

      dwm009 - "I am convinced that most, but not all, actually realize that deleting the zeros means a LOP and it's really bad for them but they pretend these articles are good news anyway."

      I agree. There's a lot of silly groveling / peer ego stroking / chronic attention seeking on those forums. Posers sucking up not just to guru's but other trying to look cool and earn peer approval. It's like watching the unpopular kid at school stammer "Y-You're laughing with me and not at me, right guys? Guys?..."

      The entire existence of many of those RV forums is far more about being the adult equivalent of a comfort blanket than any serious discussion platform. A lot of people who bought into the scam are either too frightened or too prideful to admit the truth (or are afraid of the totalitarian censorship that's the only thing keeping the forums together) so they put on a fake "hang in there, have faith" style nervous pep talk, running round telling everyone what he thinks they want to hear. The obsession with frantically seeking approval from other people as a substitute for the facts, is essentially Codependency

      Delete
  15. Well, this should be entertaining but nothing new. We have all seen for years confused "investors" like dinarbeliever come and go. They have a stint as a popular character at DV until they finally wake up and quietly disappear. Dinarbeliever will be no different. I really wish he would join this site to get the absolute thrashing he deserves. Brian, Dave, Jrg and others.....I will post his "theory" on the "RV" as soon as he makes the mistake of posting it. Its going to be fun and thankfully many will be here to watch his destruction since he brilliantly posted the name of this site. Lol.


    Thanks dinarck, keepem, networth, lopsters for your responses. I am going to post a massive reply probably at the weekend why I think the dinar will RV. I am not delusional Dinarck I don't appreciate name calling so I promise to not name call you guys back. The reply will be based on my true life experiences and links and possible videos as to why I think the dinar will revalue. So that the lopsters know my background - I am a normal guy from the uk I live in Yorkshire but grew up in Essex. I work as a carer in the NHS and support people with mental illness. The contacts I have include an Iraqi who works in Leeds, I also have a contact who has access to a translator plus I have got to know someone who does deal with the CBI directly. I also have a good friend who taught me about the Marshall plan and has a degree in international politics and strategic strategies -and American history and policy units in his degree. I am no economist but I have learnt about the lop theory and why iraq may revalue. As I said before Dinarck I am not going to result in any more name calling and I am trying to make you guys understand why I believe the dinar will revalue. Chin chin Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166932-deputy-for-the-citizen-raise-zeros-reflects-the-image-of-the-development-of-the-iraqi-economy/#ixzz2mYyXo0i2

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    1. I sure hope Dinarbeliever does way better with his "massive reply" because from what I heard so far it just sounds like Obama trying to convince that Obamacare is not a failure even though most who've lost coverage won't be covered in Jan. 1.

      So he has an Iraqi translator (most likely google translator), someone who deals with CBI directly (probably Ali - Dinartrade), learned the Marshall Plan (yeah there goes a special unheard-of skill), international politics (WOW!!! now we're speaking serious economics. hope they can balance a personal checkbook - palleeease!!). Whoopie stinky doo doo!!! Am I psychic or have I heard this all before?? lol....

      Delete
    2. Good luck to you, dinarbeliever. You can think whatever you want. But it is a mathematical certainty that the dinar will not massively revalue. It's not an opinion. It's not wishful thinking. It's not hope and faith. The people you know and the experiences you have had won't change that. Some people seem to think that the RV is about super secret information and special relationships and understanding unique formulations. It isn't. Any information someone would need to draw a conclusion about the dinar is right on the CBI's website. It doesn't require a degree in economics to figure out. It doesn't require special analytical skills. It doesn't require a knowledge of history or the Marshall Plan. I figure an eighth grade education is sufficient. If you understand that 1,000 billion is the same as 1 trillion you understand the information. Basic math skills are all that is required.

      When I got suckered into this scam and started frequenting dinar forums all I heard was that evidence of the RV was everywhere and it was compelling. Except when I asked for it. Then it was nowhere. Asking for information that everybody just knew was akin to "trolling" or "causing trouble". I soon determined the RV forums looked just like a cult. Hope and faith. A charismatic, likable cult leader. Devoted, unquestioning followers. Totalitarian restrictions on speech. Belief. The promise of salvation. The idea of resurrection. But no evidence. No facts. Just blind allegiance. Just financial desperation or greed. People wanted the RV to be true so bad that they warped their world view so they saw evidence everywhere they looked. After my first visit to the CBI's website I realized the foolishness of the RV. As soon as I learned Iraq had an M2 of nearly 60 trillion dinar (at the time), I knew it was a scam. Even after pointing it out, people tried to suggest the information wasn't true (as if the CBI was in on the fix). Only their cult leader and his super secret contacts knew the true story and the real information and you ignore him at your own peril. After all, 2,000 other mind numbed robots couldn't possibly be wrong (confirmation bias, as Brian has pointed out numerous times). You were just a troublemaker looking to dash the dreams and hopes of so many people. YOU were the bad person. It was laughable.

      So go ahead, dinarbeliever. Give us your charts and your notes and your articles and newspaper clipping and your special analysis and show us how the laws of mathematics are suspended so the Iraqi dinar can revalue by [pick a number]%. We wait with baited breath.

      Delete
    3. Networth, Dinarbeliever's longwinded post (and that's all it will be) is obviously going to be comical as evidenced by what he has already said about it. He claims that Iraqi tv is scrolling information about the upcoming "RV" to educate the citizens about the soon-to-be new wealth that they are about to receive! If that's not absolute proof of the stupidity he intends to post then nothing is! Ok we all know that the CBI would NEVER, not under any circumstances, announce an upcoming increase in value of the Dinar since that would be financial suicide yet he is saying they are doing just that? Isn't it strange that Iraq would be scrolling such information across TV screens but except for the Iraqi locals only he and his "interpreters" know about it? This guy is obviously a scammer or is totally delusional and possibly both but it's quite obvious his "info" is from the local barnyard!

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    4. dwm, you're absolutely right. Nobody believes that crap. But even if something that ridiculous was scrolling across TV screens in Iraq, it still wouldn't be true! Even if Turki and Maliki and Legarde stood together on live TV and gave a press conference that unequivocally said the dinar was going to revalue to 10 cents or one dollar or some other amount it still wouldn't be true. It would be like them coming out and saying that, from now on, in Iraq, two plus two will equal five. They could say whatever they wanted. It still wouldn't make it true. Mathematics is a universal language. People, no matter how arrogant they are, don't have the power to suspend the laws of mathematics. They don't have magical powers or mystical abilities. Even they can't decree themselves the power to make two plus two equal five. The only possible way a political leader can force a significant RV of the dinar is if they seize dinar currently in existence in the world. They would have to physically seize notes and bank accounts and provide nothing in return. Politicians are crooks. We all know that. But only a complete totalitariam gov't could do something like that. And, of course, if they did something like that it still wouldn't help the dinar dreamers. Their notes would be the first one seized. It's pure fantasy. But I admire his determination to prove that the laws of mathematics will be suspended so dinarians can have their dreams fulfilled. Perhaps we should submit his name for consideration of the next Nobel Prize in Mathematics! LOL!

      Delete
    5. Ok just to be fair it appears as if maybe I had Dinarbeliever confused with another poster about the SCROLLING of info on Iraqi TV however since he has said repeatedly they have been discussing on TV the Dinar being greatly undervalued and that they are going to increase it's value it's really a case of "splitting hairs" about the format, six of one half dozen of the other.

      He has also been ranting about how "Lopsters" are Government plants, and even said the KGB comes to mind, because they (the Government) don't want people to invest in Dinar, Really??? Why??? This whole thing about "Lopsters" being paid by the Government or the Iraqis generating false news in order to get people to sell their Dinar makes zero sense, no surprise there however. If "Lopsters" do convince people to sell just who are they selling to? They only place they can sell is to other delusional investors or to dealers who in turn just recycle this nearly worthless paper back into the scam market so how would it benefit the Iraqi Government or any entity of the US Government to convince people to sell? The short answer is it wouldn't but people like Diniarbeliever will try anything to discredit those who expose their non-sense.

      Delete
  16. I hope his friend who taught him about the Marshall Plan explained all this.
    http://therealasset.co.uk/history-germany-gold-currency/
    “At the end of 1923 the gold-backed Rentenmark was created, which provided stability; one billion Papiermark could be exchanged for one Rentenmark.”
    (So that’s a 6 zero lop.)
    “In 1924, the Rentenmark was released by the Reichsmark in the ratio 1:1”
    (no money made there)
    “One consequence, amongst other things, of the Second World War was a collapsed German economy. A huge glut of money was offset by only a minimal range of goods.”
    “In 1948 in the western zones of Germany, a currency reform was undertaken; the Reichsmark and Alliierte Militärmark were replaced by the Deutsche Mark. Every citizen was allowed to exchange 600 Reichsmark into 60 Deutsche Mark.”
    “In the former German Democratic Republic (GDR), East Germany, a currency reform was also undertaken in 1948. The Reichsmark was replaced by the Deutsche Mark der Deutschen Notenbank (DM) in the rate of 10:1. Due to the high levels of cash holdings the GDR defined in 1957 that only 300 Deutsche Mark (GDR) could be exchanged”

    So there you have it. In a 25 year period Germany had a 6 zero lop followed by a 1:1 currency exchange, then both the East and the West had a 1 zero lop and in both cases citizens were limited in the amount of currency they could exchange. In the West they could only get 60 new Deutsch Mark and in the East they could only get 30 new Deutsch Mark.
    To say the least, Germany is not an example that dinar holders should be hoping for.

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    1. ROFL! All that "Marshall Plan" cr*p came from the imaginary non-existent "Dr. Todd" (see below links). All the Dinar pumpers like "Dr. Todd" have done is steal most of the original "global settlements" conspiracy from NESARA and rewrite the least wacky parts of it to suit their own Dinar sales pitch to try and prop up collapsing credibility. Example:-

      "Dr Todd: The question probably comes at this time is probably how do I know about these things? I was an air control officer just after hostilities in Korea. They had been working on this for some time, but they needed to be able to secretly move things back and forth particularly in the Far East to settle the final things. There was a committee was set up to make the final report and I was the junior officer that helped write the report that went to our president, Queen Elizabeth and the key person in the Far East that it went to."
      http://www.dinarrecaps.com/1/post/2012/09/complete-thursday-dr-todd-ptr-cc-transcript.html

      Of course - whenever governments need secret Presidential reports written, they ask teenage junior air-traffic controllers with no security clearance or intelligence background to send messages to the Queen of England. LOL. I think Sam mentioned somewhere before, that the last surviving author of the genuine Marshall Plan (George Frost Kennan), died in 2005 at age 101. So if "Dr Todd" were real, he'd be getting on for 110 years old. Except he's not real, he's just a made-up "authority figure" invented by a few pumpers in 2011 to desperately try and shore up falling listening figures.

      In above link, "Dr. Todd" laughably claims the whole "Marshall Plan" was set up by Queen Elizabeth's father in 1958. Which is extremely impressive for a man who died 6 years earlier (Feb 6th 1952)...

      As I've said before, the underlying pumper psychology is specifically to stroke the ego's of people who feel special about "knowing a secret" - and who promptly end up getting completely lost in a fantasy world and even desensitized to the fact most of what they believe in is utter contradictory gibberish. That's why people hooked on conspiracy stuff end up buying into almost every other conspiracy going.

      The original "source of the global settlements" under NESARA conspiracy was "wealthy European families who set up a secret trust fund 200 years with Saint Germaine that's earned 40 zeros worth of interest". (Let's think about that for a moment - 40 zeros worth of gold = a cube of gold the size of half the solar system - supposedly "hidden" in a few secret warehouses on Earth. Yes, it's that silly.) Now the "RV" bunch like those who invented "Dr. Todd" have simple scribbled that out and crayoned in "Iraq will save the world because of the Marshall Plan" to suit their own sales pitch. I.

      The whole "Dr. Todd's Marshall Plan" thing is total baseless nonsense that only the chronically gullible believe in... It's a form of paranoid dissociative disorder no different to Alex Jones or Ben Fulford (who rambles on about "global settlement funds", "reptilian shapeshifters" and "4m ninja's under his command" all the time).

      Delete
    2. More of "Dr. Todd's Marshall Plan" 'credibility':-

      10-26-2011 - "Right now things are crazy like Kuwait was prior to their RV. Dr. Todd told Gary everything is done and set. Everything is ready to go and we have no idea why we are not seeing it this moment. Looking at the end of the month, first of next month but NOW hearing they are now trying to push that quicker than that."

      1-14-2012 - "I don’t know if we will see something before Tuesday…Dr. Todd thinks it will hapen on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday…everything is in a good place."

      9-14-2011 - (via TonyTNT) "DR.T [DR.TODD] DID SAY I T COULD HAPPEN TODAY OR TOMORROW".

      10-31-2011 - (via Gary) "Dr. Todd says its here and we are in a wait and watch mode…We are still within our timeframe between now and midweek"

      8-29-2011 - (via TonyTNT) "sources and Dr. Todd state this can be announced any minute and again today Dr. Todd says that this will be economically catastrophic if this does not happen before September 1st"

      1-18-2012 - (via Gary) "We did hear from Dr. Todd today…with his contacts-They are all seeing it clear. We are right on top of it. Two words. Imminent and RIGHT HERE!!"

      9-14-2011 - TONY– "DR.T DID SAY I T COULD HAPPEN TODAY OR TOMORROW. DR.T DID SAY IT COULD BE BY NOON ON FRIDAY IF NOT THEN TO SUNDAY"

      9-14-2011 - DAN- "DR.TODD HE SAID M IS THE HOLD UP AS WE SPEAK. HE SAID NOON BAGHDAD TIME SOMETHING"

      9-14-2011 - GARY– "ABOUT THAT HE SAID TOMORROW IS A GOOD TIME FOR IT TO HAPPEN IF NOT THEN SUNDAY AND SEE IT BY AFTERNOON

      8-16-2011 - "Dr. Todd, Tony and Gary to get the credible side of why this will take place and why this has to take place pretty quick. Dr. Todd said before the end of the fiscal year, the end of this month. And them wanting to have a good quarter".

      Enough said...

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  17. So Dinarck your looking for my destruction - I'm waiting for the dinar to revalue and then the 1000 of people who listened to you will suddenly come after you on a witch hunt. I am joking by the way and wish you and your band of saviours no harm. As I said before I will tell you about the experiences this past year that turned me from being a lopster into someone who now believes an imminent RV will take place. You sound like you need a hug Dinarck. I don't mind posting stuff on your site but I am not going to lower myself to the douchbags. You guys have gone to far with your printing of people's personal information and there is no way I want to be part of that. Dinarck this will make you laugh and cause you to take the piss but I don't care as I firmly believe it so GO RV!!!!!!!!!Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166932-deputy-for-the-citizen-raise-zeros-reflects-the-image-of-the-development-of-the-iraqi-economy/page-2#ixzz2mdV9ZMSi

    Haha.....trust me, I dont worry about people being upset with me when it "RVs" because there is no such thing as "RVs". I know you disagree so please show us one. You speak of them as they real so please show us one. Let me ask you this.....if RVs are real then does Iran get to do one next? How about South Korea? Vietnam? How about any country on earth with a hyperinflated currency? Or is Iraq the only special one? Since economics works they way you say and not the way it always has and always will then that question should be easy for you.

    I think it is you who should worry about people being upset with you when Iraq redenominates. How many people have you talked into wasting money on dinar?

    Lets not kid ourselves dinarbeliever, you wont join this site because you are gutless and need Adam to censor your opposition. Kudos for the exchange through sites but I promise you its not going to end well for you. Look back aways for our exchange with Enorrste. He too tried to pump RVs as real and wasnt very successful. So good luck. I am truely looking forward to your thoughts on the imminent "RV".

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    1. He summed it all up already. It's nothing but "belief" for him, as it is for nearly every other dinarian. "...someone who now believes an imminent RV will take place." "...I firmly believe it". I think they subscribe to the school of thought that says, "if you believe in something strong enough, you can will it to be true." It's all about belief for them. As I said earlier, it's eerily similar to a cult.

      And printing people's personal information? What's so bad about that? Perhaps he's suggesting it's better that people "invest" thousands of dollars based on the musings and postings of anonymous strangers on the internet. Don't know them. Can't meet them. Can't see them. Can't visit them. Can't find them. But they have clever screen names and cool avatars so you can trust their advice. What a great idea! What could go wrong?

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    2. This blog has never published personal information like phone numbers and addresses, and when we have provided names it was done to reveal information about the person that the dinar community was entitled to know; such as arrest records, prior MLM schemes, deceptive practices ... etc. And never once have we published information that was obtained through anything more than keyword searches and information that was already on the internet where anybody else could have found it. It was all public information. If you have a mugshot, a history of scamming, an indictment, a pornsite .....etc. that you don't want people to discover my suggestion is that you refrain from promoting scams like the RV of the Iraqi dinar.

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  18. Lol......dinarbeliever hasnt even written his rant and has already been totally debunked on every subject. He doesnt stand a chance. Hahaha

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  19. I haven't kept up with all this. What are these 800 numbers Okie is talking about?
    Who will people be calling and what info is supposed to be given out?

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    1. LOL!!! Are you sure you want to know? Tony and Okie and a few others are saying that when the RV happens there will be 1-800 numbers given out for people to call and get information about when and where to go to cash in the IQN (you can't say IQD if you want the super special rate). Or something like that.

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  20. I'm disappointed. Here we are halfway through the weekend and still no "massive reply" from Dinarbeliever thus far. I was really looking forward to his supportive argument as my possible investing in the dinar dream hinges on his facts.

    Bwahaaaahaaahaaa!!! Sorry I was trying to hold it in longer but I just couldn't retain myself any longer. ;-)

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  21. I have family members who are throwing $1,000's of dollars at these jokers and are getting sucked it daily. Help!

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    1. You may want to follow this hot thread / topic currently going on for the last few days which has tons of information being discussed why this investment is so far from the proverbial get rich "RV".

      Go to the following link: http://dinardouchebags.blogspot.com/2013/12/december-update.html

      Delete

Please keep your comments civil and respectful. No namecalling, insults, or accusations against other participants. Do not post phone numbers or addresses.