Friday, December 6, 2013

December Update

Well here we are in December.  Boy has this year gone by fast, and still no RV!?!?!??  What up wit' dat?  I'm starting to have my doubts about this.  LOL!!!

Actually I'm just mimicking what I've read on many of the dinar forums.  People are starting to express their doubts more freely than in the past, and this blog's readership has surpassed every expectation I had when I started writing about these douchebags two years ago.  A couple of weeks ago the total views hit half a million.  I realize that many of them are repeaters but many aren't, too.  I'd estimate that upwards of 30,000 people have visited this blog.  I've recently seen a week where the daily average was almost 2,000 hits!  For a lopper site that's unheard of.  I'd love to attribute that to my wit, charm, and brilliant intellect, but I'd say that's probably an overreach.  People are looking for answers and when they type in dinar related keywords my blog shows up in the results.  Here are a few examples of keywords used to draw people to the blog.

dinar scams
is the dinar a hoax
tony renfrow
dinar scam
is the dinar a scam
tony breitling
dinar rv scam
dinar scam 2013
dinar guru adam montana

They wouldn't come here if they didn't suspect that something is up.  The popularity of the blog is surely more of a testament to the disillusionment of dinarians than it is to any of my skills.  Regardless of why, I'm happy to see the awakening taking place.


One of my readers sent me this recently:

I work at a call center for one of the "major four banks" that's supposedly participating in the IQD buy-backs (we're not, of course).  Specifically, I'm a specialist in foreign currency.  You know, I sell Euros to people who are going on European cruises and give out exchange rates.  Or at least, that's mostly what I do.  I'd say around 15-25% of our phone calls are regarding currency speculation.  It's frustrating to deal with them because when presented with facts, they respond by accusing us of being part of a conspiracy (one caller said to my coworker "I know you guys have a gag order or whatever and can't talk about it...").  Plus, it's a sales department.  We have goals to meet and they are wasting our time with these pipe dreams! 
This is the blog I would write if I didn't think I'd get fired for posting that stuff.  This bank takes it's reputation very seriously and doesn't stand for their employees blogging about work.  I was especially intrigued by your post regarding revenue from web traffic.  That hadn't occurred to me at all.
 
I've shared your blog with a bunch of my coworkers and we're all getting a big kick out of it.  I told them, "I'm gonna email that guy and tell him he's my hero!"
     



And another one sent this:

I stumbled upon your website a few days ago and have read some of your blog entries.  I must cheer your efforts and congratulate you for your objective and logical reasoning while using verifiable evidence.

I must tell you a quick anecdote that you may think is too unbelievable to be true; I assure you, it isn’t!  I have a friend that invested in the Iraqi Dinar in January 2013.  She is in the lower middle income bracket and lives in Vancouver, BC.  She flew to Nevada in order to meet a rather large congregation of fellow ‘investors’ from Florida, Australia, and England.  She asked me for financial aid in order to help pay her rent in Vancouver so her 18-year-old son would not have to live without a roof over his head.  I lent her $1,200.00 in mid February.  I am completely astonished that she is still living out of her suitcase in a Nevada motel awaiting this hypothetical RV.  I email her every few weeks requesting an update, however, she always responds with the same old stories… “soon, soon, soon…”.  I have yet to receive a single dime of my owed monies.

Beyond the good deeds of your website, it truly is a sad reality that some very good-natured people get caught up in this Dinar scam!  I want to thank you for espousing the truth respecting this global investment scam and truly wish that more people come to their senses after reading your blog entries.


I get emails along these lines frequently, but these two stood out as they reveal the extent of the lunacy that is the RV myth.  While I'm amazed at this kind of insanity, I'm equally baffled as I read on the boards about people who have been waiting for the RV for five years or more.  Seriously?  How long does it take to catch on, guys?  It took me less than two years and I thought I was slow.  I can't imagine people listening in on conference calls, logging on to their favorite dinar site, and checking the CBI website every day, week after week, month after month, year after year since 2008 or so.  It's time to move on, people. 


In November a guru named TD shook a lot of people up with this:

11-23-2013 Iraq is making it known publicly to the world their intentions be absolute and put to rest whether or not there will be a LOP...and he also confirmed (emphatically !!) that the LOP of the existing notes will be done.

A concerned caller asked BGG about this and his response was:

there are plenty of anti-pumpers as well as there are pumpers being paid by the same dealers ... a dealer makes 20% on the way in and 20% on the way out, and they don't care which direction you're going ..... technically it can't happen ..... they would have identical notes with two different values in different places - that's just not gonna happen

Well first of all, I've probably been called an anti-pumper as much as anybody, and no dealer has ever offered me a stinking dime.  It's nonsense to say that people are being paid to bash the dinar.  Dealers have no trouble buying the stuff from suppliers.  If they did, it wouldn't be such a hassle selling it back to them.  The only reason they offer a buyback program in the first place is to ease liquidity concerns on the part of speculators since they can no longer sell them to the banks.

And second, the notes wouldn't be identical in a lop.  The new notes would be issued in lower denominations and they would have different designs as the lop articles have clearly pointed out.  They will also have the Kurdish language on them.  And most redenominations over the past 50 years have been carried out exactly this way.  Two series of notes with different valuations co-exist for a time until the old notes are no longer in circulation.  Anybody who has researched the history of redenominations knows this.  BGG is either ignorant or lying. 



But the biggest buzz in November was the announcement of the CBI's bond initiative.  Apparently they're going to begin using bonds as a means of managing the internal exchange rate and controlling inflation and interest rates.  Some are reading RV into this of course, since they assume that it will lead to a reduction in the money supply.  I really don't see any more reason to expect a reduction in the money supply with bonds than we've seen in all the years that they used the actions to accomplish their monetary objectives.  It's just a monetary policy change, like when our Federal Reserve raises or lowers interest rates or pursues quantitative easing.  Anybody here ever seen any big celebration taking place over any of that?


In closing, I'd like to issue a reminder that this is the time of year when the gurus talk about the RV making it a very merry Christmas.  They say that every year and they're always wrong.  They'll be wrong again this December, because the CBI's policy is stability.  But I'd still like to wish all of my readers a Merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year.
 
Happy Holidays!!!




195 comments:

  1. I liked that line about the caller saying "I know you are under a gag order" because the cousin I mentioned in earlier posts believes that heart-and-soul! You're right that some folks are starting to wake up and the proof of that is becoming obvious over at DV but some will of course never be convinced until this thing finally re-denominates and they are stuck with worthless paper, even then most will remain in denial and still believe it was going to happen but they got cheated out of it by Obama,"The PTB", etc. I can not get my cousin to visit this site to see the truth for himself so I made a copy of the earlier discussion and handed it to him, he took a quick look and then tossed it like it was burning his hands and replied "well you can find ANYTHING on the internet"! He will eventually become the perfect example of one who will remain in denial and will never admit he was scammed, I don't know the exact dollar amount but from what he has told me about his plans I know he has wasted over $40,000 on this non-sense and that's no exaggeration.

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  2. Yup.....another year without the impossible occurring. Economics continues to function normally and RVs remain fantasy. What alphabet excuse will Adam or Tony have this time? WTO, HCL, Cpt7or8, PTB, NDA. Its all so pathetic is funny actually. The best that we can hope for is that Iraq gets it together and finally redenominates this year and ends this Dinar ripoff once and for all. Looks unlikely seeing how violence and instability is only on the increase. But dont worry.....everything will be fine.....dinarbeliever says the end result will be a rate of 3.00. ROFL.....Its just going to float on up there once the "rate" goes "international". You see it has to be a globally accepted currency so that the float can be successful and the banks can verify the "rate". You do know that Iraq has alot of oil right?

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  3. "Anti-pumping" doesn't even make any sense since 99.9999% of the human race are "anti-pumpers" by default in calling the scam what it is - a scam. These silly guru Projection based slogans are yet more proof of the "everyone on the planet is wrong except my clan" cult-like mentality Dinar forums have degenerated into...

    The "gag order" thing is also 100% ripped off of older "conference calls" found on other scams (NESARA / global prosperity / CMKX, etc) nuts:-

    "The media can’t talk about it", she says. They were bound to secrecy by a gag order from the U.S. Supreme Court, and violations were punishable by death. Only Dove knows the truth about NESARA, and as she solemnly explains, it's dangerous information. That's why she has a secret identity. "Hardly anyone knows my name," she says. "I'm the Deep Throat of the Northwest.""
    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/8463/snared-by-a-cybercult-queen

    "Get ready for an information dump coming soon...the return of those words the gurus love to toss around. the GAG ORDER! That's the reason we don't hear any news. The reason for no transparency in anything. It's another GAG ORDER!!! Doesn't matter the material we want to know isn't involved in any court case in which disclosure would be harmful to the case or national security. The GAG ORDER is just like the current-day fillibuster. All you have to do is say the word and it's as if it has been enacted. The GAG ORDER...the surest way to get us to stop asking for proof of anything. To stop us from asking for any transparency what-so-ever. We certainly don't want to delay anything, do we? (after 11+ years, Heaven forbid!) Not to worry...he/they are under a GAG ORDER!"
    http://cmkxunofficial.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=mofo&thread=10500&post=145074

    It's based around two components : 1. "I know a secret and you have to hang onto every word I (an "authority figure") say and keep coming back if you want to find out" confidence trick that's the basis of many Advance Fee Fraud scams (where person B sells something to person A for $1,000 and promises them that imaginary person C will "give them $1m for it in future" after promised X event, then keeps stringing them along with excuses & made-up "secret intel" as to why X never happens), and 2. It's used as a blanket diversion tactic when someone asks a hard question that the guru cannot answer but still wants to give the illusion of being "in charge". "Smoke & mirrors man. Now stop asking difficult question, open wide and swallow everything I tell you and don't trust anything an "outsider" says..."

    Without the secrecy aspect, these scams fall apart, so that's why you'll always get a string of posers pretending they're "secret agents" or that "everything's a conspiracy". It's the glue that holds these scams together. The "being made to feel special about being let in on a secret" is the "honey pot" that keeps victims hooked like a drug. It's also why a disproportionately large number of people hooked on the RV scam hang round conspiracy sites and consistently try and make others 'jealous' of their "secret knowledge" (and end up looking pretty ridiculous doing so).

    Merry non-scamming Christmas all! :-D

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    1. You promised to not call names yet that was the first thing out of your beak. Therefore your credibility was instantly shot. What else can you tell us that we would believe???

      But since you asked for questions here we go. Can you legitimately explain the economics you believe will allow several trillion dinar be it 5 trillion or 30 trillion (triple zero notes) outside of Iraq that will be revalued to anything of 1 US penny or greater? And.. how do you explain a LOP / redenomination / deleting of zeros / removal of zeros / dropping of zeros WILL NOT occur?

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    2. Vinnyg, this is a pumper trick and he started right off the bat by name calling so you're right and his credibility is already suspect making it obvious what he's up to. Let's not play his silly little game! If he can't lure us into an argument and name calling contest for the purpose of distraction then he has nothing since his arguments have already been de-bunked time and again!

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  6. Ok I have a couple of questions and I'd truly like to see this discussion conducted in a civil manner with no yelling or name calling!


    You have stated the Dinar may go to a float and rise in a fairly short time to $3+ am I correct about that? If so then if it starts to rise at a rapid rate what would prevent speculators from causing a run on the Dinar? This would obviously be something the CBI would not want and would result in staggering amounts paid to speculators just as would a sudden "revaluation".

    I would really like to see you explain just how Iraq is supposed to significantly increase the Dinar's value without first going through a re-denomination which would of course result in no profit to speculators. Go ahead and explain to us how Iraq can simply "RV" their currency without reducing the 80 TRILLION or so Dinar they would be liable for! Ok maybe you can figure it in a way that is "only" 30" trillion +/- but since they do not have the Dollar reserves to support even 1 trillion an "RV", float or instant, would be impossible. Can you explain this?

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  7. When can the US "RV" the dollar? Say to 1 dollars equals 10 euro. Why not?

    Why doesnt Iraq print up a 100 trillion dinar just before the "RV".

    Does inflation even matter in your economics or can a country print as many units of currency as they want and then just "declare" it worth whatever they want with a "RV"? (Maybe you can ask Darin since he is still pumping the bitcoin irrelevance on DV to keep the RV illusion alive)

    If "RVs" are such wonderful wealth creators and poverty cures then why has one never been performed? Ever.

    Does everyone get to do one? I mean....why not? We now have a global poverty cure. "RVs". Yeah...all thanks to the economics of dinarbeliever. Brave new world.

    If the "RV" is going to bring such wealth and an end to poverty in Iraq then what are they waiting for? Does the time need to be right to create tens of trillions of US dollars worth of wealth out of thin air for yourself?

    If they discovered 85 trillion tons of gold tomorrow would it still be worth 1200 dollars an oz? Just curious because it seems that it would be a pretty common element then. Kind of like aluminium. Maybe we can just "RV" aluminum to 1200 dollars an oz too.

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    1. Dinarck - "If they discovered 85 trillion tons of gold tomorrow would it still be worth 1200 dollars an oz? Just curious because it seems that it would be a pretty common element then. Kind of like aluminium. Maybe we can just "RV" aluminum to 1200 dollars an oz too. "

      This is precisely the absurdibity behind both the RV and all the other NESARA / prosperity program / global settlements scams too. "Everyone on the planet will be 'gifted' $10bn!", "there's 40 ZEROS of gold 'blessings' out there", "I'm going to be given $1m for my $1k worth of Dinar for no reason!", etc. LOL. If there really were all that much gold, its value would (as you say) plummet to below that of base metals (copper, aluminum, tin, zinc, etc), and it would no longer be worth anything (making any currency based on gold totally worthless). Gold is a hedge against inflation precisely because it's rare. Likewise, "$10bn 'gifted' to everyone" = $70 quintillion (or 875,000 planet Earth's economies worth of money).

      What's everyone going to spend the remaining 874,999x on if just 1/875,000th of that money buys every product & service collectively made in every country on the planet in the entire global economy combined?... Something the "we can all print ourselves immensely rich" morons consistently fail to understand... "Saving the world" - Zimbabwe style that is...

      Ultimately the "RV" makes "perfect sense" if you think wealth & inflation are the same thing or that inflation only affects Western countries or that printing more money in Iraq makes the Dinar's value go UP (the exact opposite to observable reality)... Most people churning this out are one of those deluded conspiracy theorists with a "perma-victim" mentality whose logic is "If you agree with me, I'm right, but if you disagree then you must be a CIA agent so I must be twice as right" then claim to want a "sensible debate" ;-)

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  8. I just got off the phone with Okie and he said that Dinarbeliever is absolutely right. He said that his intel sources are telling him that the RV will happen within 48 hours, unless something unforeseen happens. Therefore, we are all wrong and Dinarbeliever and Okie are right. There should be no reason to doubt. Okie has a track record of 100% accuracy.

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    1. Dinarbeliever says " I do understand where you guys are coming from but I am keeping an open mind and there are arguments against the lop."

      I don't think you do know where we are coming from as it isn't about whether or not Iraq will RD (LOP if you like).. They have been saying they will and it makes sense to do so, but maybe they won't and will leave the currency as it is. The issue is that a pegged currency (i.e. one where the central bank supports a specific rate instead of letting the market go where ever it will) can not have an exchange rate higher then the central bank can support. That limit is simple the total foreign reservers divided by the size of the money supply. For Iraq that shows they have 15% or so headroom, but that's it. So they could RV by 1.15x but no more. Even 2x is impossible and 1,000x is just being silly. All the speculation about Iraqis being a proud people, and the HCL law, and all that is irrelevant, as that is about what Iraq will decide to do, but they can only decide to do what is possible to do and more than about 15% RV is not possible no matter what they want (and in fact changing the exchange rate is a terrible way to spread wealth around, its much better for the economy to just give away services or cash like other oil rich states do, i.e. why doesn't Qatar RV instead of just providing free medical care and education and so on?).

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    1. No LOP is quite possible and it looks like some in power over there do not want a re-denomination which in fact is hardly a necessity for economic improvement so no argument there, take a look at South Korea! As far as the "RV" without a "LOP" all you need to explain is how Iraq can increase the value of the Dinar to trillions of dollars when they simply don't have trillions of dollars, and it's a dead end trying to use the oil/resources backing argument. In the impossible scenario of the "RV" speculators would rush to the banks, or wherever, to "cash-in" their Dinar and these speculators would demand Dollars or whatever currency they use and they would not want barrels of crude oil or tons of gold ore! It's obvious there are many billions of dinar in the hands of speculators who would be demanding Dollars for Dinar so where would these Dollars come from? Even if it were possible to "RV" (which quite obviously it's not) why would Iraq do such a thing? Why would they chose to pay out many billions of Dollars, maybe even a trillion+, to speculators as opposed to doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE SAYING THEY WILL DO and just re-denominate to achieve a higher exchange rate without paying a cent to anyone? Of course these questions are quite pointless when one considers that it's simply an economic impossibility to "RV" trillions of units of currency given Iraq's cash reserves and no theory or, as you said "arguments against the LOP", is going to be able to explain that away!


      Fellas I may be new here but I'm not new to the "RV" scam and the pumpers' tactics so let's try to refrain from name calling and sarcasm and let this guy present his point of view, I have no doubt he has no real argument and his theories will fall apart in the face of real facts. It's going to be interesting to watch someone try to defend this so-called "RV" without the censorship he had for protection on the other site, that is unless he manages to distract from the real questions by petty arguing and name calling. His only hope is to drag everyone here down to his level and getting into a pissing contest so let's not fall for it, as the old saying goes "if you wrestle a pig you will both get muddy but the pig loves it"!

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    2. Problem is "Dinarbeliever", most people are more interested in real facts & original sourced quotes, than hearing yet another "believer" 'share their opinion' of yet another baseless "a banker said to my friend..." feel-good story or why they lap up 3rd hand 'rumor' and deliberate misinterpretations of Google mistranslations:-

      - "The new 50 Dinar bill will have a value of approx $43 [2x 25,000 current notes]... The Iraqi currency change will not have any effect on the international value of the Iraqi dinar and economy" - Central Bank of Iraq

      - "This redenomination had previously been applied in countries such as Turkey, who deleted six zeros from their currency" - Dr. Mohammed Saleh, Central Bank of Iraq

      - "The new banknotes will be printed by a European company and introduced to the market gradually and in a well-planned schedule to ensure it will not result in shocks and would not have a negative impact on the market. The exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones will be 1:1,000." - Mahma Khalil, Member of the Iraqi Parliament and official spokesperson of Iraq's Economic Committee

      - "The change that will take place with the Iraqi currency will change the face value of the dinar and not the real value as measured by the value of Iraqi dinar against the dollar and gold" Sami Atrushi, Iraqi Finance Committee

      - "The step to delete zeros is merely an administrative process, and the currency equation should remain the same. This means that the purchasing power of the new currency should be equal to that of the old currency" - Nafee Elias, Iraqi North Bank.

      - "The deletion of zeros will not affect the Iraqi dinar’s purchasing power" - Ahmed Faizullah, deputy head of the parliamentary Finance Committee

      - "The intention would be to drop three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes; but the actual value of the dinar would remain unchanged." - XE.COM

      - "CBI has announced that it intends to implement a long-planned redenomination of the Iraqi dinar by eliminating three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes" - SIGIR quarterly reports.

      Iraq's re-denomination (ie, openly & repeatedly announced lop) is pretty self-explanatory - with very clear unambiguous quotes direct from the people actually in charge of the process (without being "accidentally-on-purpose" mistranslated to mean the exact opposite of what it does mean by pumpers scribbling out "redenomination" and crayoning in "RV" then trying to take "ownership" of the quotes). And very consistent year after year (unlike pumper conspiracies which change week by week into the realms of unintentional self-parody)...

      Believe what you want to believe, but the facts will still remain facts whether the "RV" community gives their funny "stamp of approval" or not. Anyone can make up fake banker stories. Actually listening to what the Central Bank of Iraq are saying in their own pre-guru-mangled words seems much harder for guru's...

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    3. "5-3-13 Dinarbeliever: I worked in London last year. I introduced a colleague to the dinar after hearing my mates bank story "

      Which is all that needs to be said. Someone told you an unsubstantiated and unverifiable story, you believed it, and that's the beginning & end of your argument...

      No-one's asking you many questions here because a quick search of your name reveals you spend most of your time running around throwing out baseless worn-out supposedly personal anecdotes of what bankers supposedly told your "friends".

      OMG!!! My friend walked into Halifax yesterday and she was told they don't trade it. But she could tell by the look in his eyes, nudge-nudge-wink-wink what he "really" meant. Clearly she was "being stonewalled". Then my friend walked into HSBC, and merely mentioned the word "Dinar" and the bank manager GOT DOWN ON HIS KNEES AND BEGGED HER to sell him some. In front of everyone! He even showed her his computer screen of other people's confidential transactions! The guy on the Forex counter asked her where he could buy some foreign currency too. OMG! GO RV!!!!

      So a person who works in the Forex section of a major global bank asks a member of the public where he can buy foreign currency. And you seriously don't understand how utterly juvenile that "banker story" sounds to anyone with an IQ over 80 who has travelled abroad at any stage in their life? What actually happened is your friend asked the banks about the Dinar and they said "we don't trade it". That's not "stone-walling", it's telling the truth. But since you already possess a pre-disposed conspiracy mindset, everything anyone says gets twisted around to mean "proof of the RV. I JUST KNOW they're hiding it! You just have to 'look' for the 'right' signs!". As for the last guy, he probably assumed she was after a pro-forex trading account after she initially told him she'd be making transactions in the millions, rather than a complete nobody with delusions of grandeur of pretending just £525 worth of 1m Dinar banknotes in her sock drawer (less real wealth than what the average Brit changes up for tourist notes for a 2-week vacation to Europe or North America) makes her a "big shot".

      Even many of the "RV" crowd don't fall for baseless "a banker told my friend..." made-up stories anymore that have been absolutely done to death. Look at the replies even on RV forums to some of your "stories":-

      gulfscott - "Are you Serious? What a ridiculous story. All the banks ran her out the door except the one guy who obviously hasn't heard about dinar and seemed to buy into the RV scenario but this really doesn't provide any insight into what's going on with the dinar...."

      franklin - "And yet another weekend feel good story that makes no sense"

      Rv please - "Just another Friday dinar Bank Story....its not even as good as last weeks....come up with something better...better as Ocrush for some pointers"

      Jamvox - "Ding Ding Ding, Another stupid worthless bank story!", etc

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    4. Right on Brian and we have all seen it, the "go RVers jumping up and down gleefully pointing at articles that have the Iraqis clearly stating they are taking steps to increase the value of the Dinar. But as your examples so correctly point out in EVERY case it's ether in an article about deleting zeros or simply talking about the street value that has nothing to do with the official exchange rate! These guys have no trouble seeing references to increasing the value but they are completely blind to deleting the zeros or the street rate in the same article even if it's in the same sentence!

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    5. Dinarbeliever is just living in his own world. He's had many posts on DV that are very entertaining. Him and Dontlop (sonny1) are the current tag team of nonsense. Keep digging because there's more.

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    6. And then there's this gem:-

      "6-1-13 DinarBeliever: I used to think it would not happen overnight. But now recently I firmly believe it will happen overnight and I will go out on a limb here before 8th July 2013".
      http://theiraqidinar.com/doozies/i-firmly-believe-it-will-happen-overnight-214049

      Enough said...

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  11. "I do understand where you guys are coming from but I am keeping an open mind and there are arguments against the lop. Speak later"

    Well I am "keeping an open mind" about a 1000 foot tall Mickey Mouse farting out diamonds all over my town. Of course this will never happen and is more likely than an Iraqi Dinar RV but I am keeping an open mind.

    You can make many arguments against a LOP. As a matter of fact many in the Iraqi government are doing just that. One concern is that a redenomination will confuse the Iraqi market. Their own Gov. seems to be saying that the Iraqi people are not smart enough to understand how a redenomination works. (kind of like victims of GO RV of the brain) Another concern is stability. People are being shot and blown up in Iraq in record numbers. Bad time for a RD.

    What you cannot do however is make an argument for a massive RV because they do not and cannot exist in economics. Just ask a real economist who isn't trying to sell you something like VIP membership or accounts in their banks. As a matter of fact why are we even bothering with you anyway? John Jagerson who is a friend of this site has already debunked just about every stupid "argument" there is for an "RV". He is a Harvard graduate with epic credentials and experience in the currency world. So we are suppose to listen to you over him? LOL....go ahead and bring your "RV" argument. It will be funny and entertaining all at the same time.

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    1. Dinarck, Actually I recall in the Shabibi videos from April 2011 where he answered the investor's RV question by telling him that his best chance at making millions was to attend the 2014 "Mickey Shits Diamonds Over Baghdad" in celebration of the 10th anniversary of "Billions Over Baghdad". Bring your dinar to wipe your face in case some unexpected fecal matter gets accidentally released.

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  12. Questions? Most of the posters on this site don't have any questions related to the dinar. We aren't trying to figure anything out. I think the only question is why people like you still believe this nonsense. You've already promised us a bunch of links and data that was support to explain why you "believe" this garbage. So far, you've produced nothing. Until you bring something to the table, there isn't much to discuss. Are we suppose to debate with ourselves?

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  13. Looks like the scammers have longer to make money on the ignorance of dinar believers.

    Iraq News Network said the Central Bank was unable to delete the zeros Iraqi currency, or add new banknotes, for fear of confusing the market. said early in the management of the Central Bank, for "the world", "the Central Bank Chief, after consulting with officials and advisers of the Bank decided to postpone any new Iraqi currency, including the addition of new categories of paper or delete zeros." the source said, "this issue has been raised at a meeting of the Council of Ministers during which hosted by Central Bank head and The constraints that can affect the levels of the Iraqi market and economy in General, as the Iraqi experience is similar to the experience of other countries, "he said," the Central Bank unable to control the foreign currency flowing to Iraq and some of them may be false, that Iraq has become an open market and funds are transferred through exchange offices, money orders, and by persons travelling to and from Iraq.


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    1. Hi Dinarbeleiver (sic). I appreciate you coming to our humble home to discuss/debate this. And I want you to know that I too got caught up in some of these stories from people I trusted, so I know the feeling. Truth be told even after I started the blog I would read certain chat sessions and feel a twinge of excitement before I caught myself and remembered what my research clearly showed., I know the powerful allure of the RV because I've experienced it first hand. That's why I'm so adamantly opposed to what the douchebags are doing. It's like they're peddling a very powerful narcotic. People have to have some remedy to get them off of it. That's what I'm trying to do here with facts, links, logic .... etc. You'll have to overlook some of the animosity expressed here as many of my readers share my contempt for this addiction and have a hard time containing it at times. Maybe you're a true believer and not a pumper or a lying douche. I don't know. But what I can say for certain is that the IQD will never be worth £2 per dinar with tens of trillions in circulation. Even 2 cents isn't possible. Any stories that indicate otherwise are just rumours based on a misunderstanding of how economics and currency valuations work. It's really no more complicated than that.

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    2. Dinarbeliever says: " I am a mathematician and I'm good at calculus integration ect and probability."

      LOL! now thats funny! You should then have no problem at all understanding that Iraq's exchange rate can not exceed the CBIs foreign reserves divided by the size of IQD money supply. that is just 3rd grade arithmetic! Yet you are willing it seems to just accept that somehow in this case 2+2 will equal 12,000 based on some Nth hand rumor that itself implies the tiny handful of folks in Iraq that would make any exchange rate decision are blabbing it all over the place.

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    3. Dinarbeliever, Thank you for that explanation. It is exactly what we were expecting from you. NOT A DAMN piece of substantiated information but a piss poor bank story. Really what I mean is we appreciate the laughter. Others called it here prior to your post and I agreed.

      But I must ask. Why is it you pumpers / gurus love to use the number "2" with all of the lies. Ie. 2 contacts, 2am, 2 verifications, 2 friends, 2 days (48 hours), 2 times, etc... you get the picture. Is that some sort of secret society handshake you pumpers use to authenticate with other GURUMORIST in the community because if you don't use that code "2" they are stupid enough to believe it themselves?? Just saying...

      As far as stating you're a mathematician who knows calculus & probability I can tell you that was probably one of your lowest IQ moves. That being said you should have known that the probability of you getting reamed over that statement was gonna be greater than the RV occurring right?!! Mathematicians are like historians in that they operate off of verifiable facts not rumors. For instance, show me that 2+2=4 don't just tell me.

      But I'm curious as to what made you become a carer if you're such a great mathematician?? "I work as a carer in the NHS and support people with mental illness." These were your words the other day.

      I'm signing off of this thread as you delivered what I expected. HOT METHANE GAS!!!!

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    4. "The jist of it is this - the banks in the uk were told to stop selling the IQD because it is going to be an asset and will get to £2 per dinar."

      Utter nonsense. People make up lies all the time on RV boards and swear blind "my secret agent friend said so". Others still unthinkingly copy & paste stuff from stupid conspiracy websites without thinking any of it through. Many sit around all day telling each other what they want to hear as a comfort blanket. You being new have obviously not figured that out yet.

      "What I have described is really the only reason why I think the dinar will RV."

      Bingo...

      "I could post links and have sabre rattle with you guys but I can't be arsed."

      Probably because your links will inevitably take us to the usual long debunked conspiracy websites that have been "doing the rounds" even longer than the RV...

      "I am a mathematician and I'm good at calculus integration ect and probability"

      LOL! £1 = 1,901 Dinar. And 1 Dinar = £0.000525774. For you to believe 1 Dinar = £2 means you think Iraq will "RV" their currency by a comical 3,803x (380,000%).

      Given Iraq's money supply is 84,000bn Dinar, and given Iraq has only $80bn (£49bn) worth of foreign exchange reserves to back the value of those Dinar internationally (only enough $ to back 1,000 Dinar per $ which is precisely why the Dinar's rate is under 1000:1 vs the $ and under 1750:1 vs the £ in the first place) and the given the whole global GDP is approx $80tn, this means:-

      1. You genuinely believe Iraq will end up with a money supply worth £168,000bn / $275,000bn, which is 3.5x planet Earth's worth of money. See the obvious common sense problem with that? Compare those figures to Britain's £2,400bn (who have a 10x larger economy) to see how utterly "away with the fairies" delusional they are.

      2. You genuinely believe that a country with a 0.265% share of the global economy will have a 350% share of the world's money supply for no other reason than you think it "deserves" it. Think that through.

      3. Iraq will only have enough $ to "RV" 0.0292% of Dinar in circulation before the CBI goes bankrupt and you'll be one of those lucky few whilst the entire Iraq banking system collapses. That's the absurd effect of demanding the CBI spend its $80bn FX reserves "buying back" 84,000bn Dinar at a delusional rate of £2 = 1 Dinar.

      4. Non-Iraqi's will see nothing wrong in being asked to pay almost 4,000x more money to buy Dinar to import products from Iraq tomorrow vs today because prices haven't been lopped. I'm sure even you find that silly. If Iraq were to "RV" 4,000x in real terms vs every other country on Earth, that's the same effect on international trade with Iraq as if every country except Iraq all DEVALUED their currencies by 4,000x!

      Obviously your maths (or economics) skills are not quite as good as you thought they were, if you genuinely believe you can just "print yourself rich" by yelling "today we're 4,000x richer for no reason")...

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    1. And THAT is all you got??????? Wow and I thought you were going to give us something to discuss but that's nothing but still another goofy, and I do mean GOOFY, bank story!


      Come on now you told us to ask questions and some of us have but apparently you have no answers? Wow, what a surprise!

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    1. Dinarbeleiver it's very obvious you have realized you got in over your head here and now you are trying to change directions. I still want to hear your explanation of just how Iraq is going to "RV" TRILLIONS of units of currency without re- denominating first, you said to ask questions so I did now it's your turn and I await your answer but another stupid bank story will not explain anything!

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    1. Please post your links to the IMF and WorldBank that you claim point to an RV. Why not? Its trivial right? cut pass done.

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    2. Dinarbeliever - "I could post links from the IMF"

      So can I, and they amusingly say the exact opposite of what you claim they say:-

      "A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar:"
      http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/

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    3. Yes please post your links because hey who knows. Hey you never know. You just might convince all of us that economics doesn't matter in the game of national currency and we all may decide to empty our bank accounts in lieu of a reserve because the RV is right around the corner.

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    4. Forgot to add:-

      5. Given you believe Iraq's currency "should" be worth over $275,000bn. And given Iraq's real economy consists of exporting approx 2.5m barrels of oil per day (though this year it even fell to just over 2m). In Sept this year, Iraq exported just 62.1m barrels of oil (2.07m barrels per day (bpd), the lowest daily average since February 2012). With average oil prices of $100, even a peak 2.5m barrels works out to a peak of $91bn oil revenue per year ($100 x 2.5m barrels x 365 days, keeping things simple and excluding downtime for maintenance).

      Or in order words, it would take roughly 3,021 years worth of Iraqi oil sales (from now until 5,034AD) to acquire enough $ via oil exports to support a Dinar "RV" at that rate (assuming the CBI never prints another Dinar). Except that it won't because the US money supply is under $15tn and there simply aren't that amount of $ available on the whole planet. And it also wouldn't because most of Iraq's oil revenue pays for it's govt workers salaries, and is unavailable for CBI currency reserves. In fact Iraq is already running a budget deficit this year even with a previously predicted 3m exported barrels which it has failed to meet). That's how whacked out delusional the "RV" truly is.

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    5. You mean all that suspense and nonsense about your "Reply" when you got time was just a stupid bank story????? Now you say you believe in the "RV" based purely on bank stories? You mean like the examples Brian posted of your past bank stories? THOSE stories? ROTFLMAO, it would take a total idiot to believe non-sense like that! I know I have been calling for restraint and asking that everyone refrain from name calling and sarcasm but you sure are making it difficult, come on now do honestly think anyone would believe the Bull$&!% bank stories you are telling? Even if they are real events (which I seriously doubt) you have clearly misinterpreted them and nothing that was supposedly said trumps the common sense economics that make such a "RV" impossible.



      OK you guys from DV (I know some of you are here) Dinarbeliever crowed about posting a "massive reply over the weekend" and then told everyone that the Lopsters' replies would be on the Douchebags site and some of you said you were anxious to see it, well there you have it! Just a ridiculous bank story was his "Massive weekend reply"! Well what do you guys from DV think of your hero now?

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    1. Sweet!!! I'm going straight to the bank before 9am tomorrow.

      BTW, don't think for one second you are manipulating anyone into an argument on this site with your pathetic butt talk. We just chose to toy around with you. I'm sure NO ONE here takes a grain of you seriously so the joke is on you. You know like a game of monkey in the middle and you're the monkey!!! LMAO...

      Hey, we all know you are NOT from London nor have you ever lived there.

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    1. Here's the problem with you crackpots. You all refer to Iraqi TV for "RV HEADLINES" yet not one of you yahoos read or speak Arabic or Kurdish. But I supposed they have a special scroll box at the bottom of the screen for the guru pumpers in the dinar community to disseminate the information to the rv believing buffoons!!! LMAO!!!!

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    1. They aren't "links" at all, they're the same copied & pasted pumper propaganda word-games spammed on RV forums of taking the original context of "face value" and twisting it to "mean" something it doesn't. It's the same garbage as "When Iraq say they're going to "delete 3 zeroes" they "really mean" it'll be worth 1,000x more internationally. They said it on TV! A guru translated it for me!".

      The Dinar's real market value is less than its pegged value. See here:-

      As of 8th Dec : pegged value is 1166:1, and street / market value is 1230:1.
      http://www.cbi.iq/documents/CBI_FOREIGN_EXCHANGE_AUCTIONS.pdf

      It's obvious you haven't a clue what that means.

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    2. Quite frankly, I don't care if Turki, Maliki, and LeGarde held a joint press conference and announced, unequivocally, that the dinar was going to revalue for $3. IT STILL WOULDN'T BE TRUE! It is a mathematical certainty. The dinar will never revalue by more than a few pips. Ever! It's not subject to decree by someone in gov't. No one in gov't can make it happen. It's not a conspiracy. It's not a secret cabal of people keeping it down. It's not up to the CBI (despite what Montana constantly insists). It's not up to the IMF. It's not up to anyone! The laws of mathematics don't change to accomodate human declarations. They can't be legislated or repealed. They are universal and permanent. So your TV stations and bankers and friends and newspapers can say whatever they want. If they tell you the dinar is going to RV (by anything more than a few pips here and there), they are lying. Your only chance at an RV is to sucker someone into paying more for your dinar than you did.

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    1. Sure!! Let me go ahead and hack blogspot's servers to identify your ip address. Or how about I just go with the idea that there are plenty of ip spoofing services where you can continuously change the source like many of you guru pumpers use so that authorities can't easily trace you. Better yet why don't you just tell me what your ip address is since you are such an honest Al!!!! LOL..

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    1. I don't care if you are from Mars nothing you have said makes a bit of sense! You math is completely comical and your "massive reply" was nothing short of hilarious! So you base your belief on bank stories like this???

      "OMG!!! My friend walked into Halifax yesterday and she was told they don't trade it. But she could tell by the look in his eyes, nudge-nudge-wink-wink what he "really" meant. Clearly she was "being stonewalled". Then my friend walked into HSBC, and merely mentioned the word "Dinar" and the bank manager GOT DOWN ON HIS KNEES AND BEGGED HER to sell him some. In front of everyone! He even showed her his computer screen of other people's confidential transactions! The guy on the Forex counter asked her where he could buy some foreign currency too. OMG! GO RV!!!!"

      "Nudge-Nudge-Wink-Wink what he really meant"???????

      Are you serious? I truly hope every delusional starry eyed follower of yours from DV comes over here to see their hero now! This is great, keep it up!

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    1. Dinarbeliever - "If those m2 figures are correct then it's certain the dinar will lop."

      They are indeed true:-
      http://cbi.iq/documents/Monetary_Aggregates_f.xls

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  24. Well Dinarbeliever.....that indeed was in fact funny and entertaining. Not sure where you got your info from about me being a MOD at DV (probably from a bank story) and I have never even heard of dinar dater (sounds like a kinky pump site). Anyway like already has been pointed out I am glad that many from DV got to see your "RV" "argument" first hand. I originally zeroed you out because you happened to be one of the people spreading the most baseless hype over at DV at the time. Thankyou for taking the bait. Now if only Dontlop had the guts to come over. Of course he doesn't because as a paid shill his boss doesn't want to see him get picked apart.

    Dinarbeliever.....Iraqi TV is talking about improving the MARKET RATE of the Iraqi Dinar. They have been talking about it for over a year since USD was getting spilled over the border when Iran was being choked heaviest by sanctions. That black market USD industry was leaving a lack of USD in Iraq which created a higher demand for USD which effectively LOWERED the MARKET RATE of the dinar. They have been discussing ever since how raise it back in line with the exchange rate. It has nothing to do with a super duper life changing RV to 2. Your interpreter and yourself have simply been confused because you lack understanding of Iraqi markets and currency dealings. All of the irrelevant information is posted daily at DV. Auctions, Allawi did this or that, Iraq bought this tank and plane, RD maybe maybe not. Its all pointless though because the bottom line is that there is no such thing as RVs nor will there ever be.

    By the way....I don't work for the KGB and I could careless what you do with your dinar.

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    1. Dinarck you're missing out with the KGB. I personally have worked at a 3 letter agency AAA and have many contacts at other 3 letter joints like KFC, COD, POS, ABC, UPS, MP3, CPA, CBS, NBC, ATT, etc... The list is extensive but they've asked me to not speak anymore and put a gag order on me. The last time I mentioned MTV and CNN the black suv's showed up and waterboarded me.

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  25. Dinarbeliever, the only reason why you are getting pounded here in my belief is because you flew off the handle calling everyone a "wanker". That wasn't cool especially when you have this false preconceived notion of a false rv whether you believe it is or not. Bottom line is you could have been a bit more humble by posting a real argument and had a nice exchange but you didn't. Then the posted history of you by one of the readers here exposed you and I'm sure that triggered some nasty flashbacks for them given the past with this scam. Lastly, you finally post bank stories which are just far out there but also that is your premise for investing in the dinar. Now if that last piece is true it would not surprise me if you were introduced by another dreamer as such, but it provided no backing to all of the information you stated you learned from other notable professionals. So if you excuse me while I say we all smelled the methane gas before it was delivered. Sorry but that is how I see it. You can't come to a bomb fight with a butter knife.

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    1. Ok you are investing (actually speculating) in this grossly inflated currency without even doing the math? Then you are betting they are lying about the m2 to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars based on a nudge-nudge-wink-wink bank story and you think it's ME that needs a bed in the psyco ward? LOL!

      When this started I was under the impression you were going to present a reasonable (in your mind anyway) argument for the RV and since you even invited members of DV to come here to see the "Lopsters'" response I thought we might have a good discussion/debate. I was hoping that we could address some of the common misconceptions concerning this scam and you even told us to ask questions so we did but you didn't even acknowledge that never mind attempt to answer anything. There was no debate or discussion just anecdotal stories that are so far fetched no one of reasonable intelligence could be expected to believe them even if they were true. By your own admission you have not done the math but yet you think the Iraqi's are going to "RV" trillions of Dinar? How did you expect to come here and discuss ANYTHING if you have not even done the simple math? Since you are a mathematician (yeah right!) then I would suggest you take just a few minutes to look at this simple math that you have so conveniently ignored and you will easily see why this "RV" is not in the realm of possibility, not even close! The truth is you have no argument and it's painfully obvious you also don't have a clue about how economics work, I am going to ask once again (after all you said ask questions) for you to explain just how this "RV" is possible? How can Iraq keep secret from the world that they are lying about tens of trillions of Dinar for their M2? It's a standard pumper response when confronted with something that they simply can't explain away with any amount of gibberish, they simply insist it's not true and Iraq is lying!

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    2. Dinarbeliever - "I have not done any maths"

      That's precisely the problem - many who buy into it never "do the maths" and rely on manufactured hype and fake "intel". Back in the real world, a pegged currency's (like the Dinar's) "rate" derives from how much currency they've created divided by how much foreign exchange reserves they have to back it.

      It takes all of 7 seconds to realise why Iraq's $80bn / £49bn worth of foreign exchange reserves is not going to "support" even 1% of any fantasy 1:1 $80,000 / £49,000bn RV, let alone a crazy $275,000bn / £168,000bn.

      In fact if you do the maths - 84,000bn Dinar divided by $80bn = Iraq's "fair market value" is under 1000:1 vs the $. Same with the British Pound - 84,000bn Dinar divided by £49bn = a fair market rate well under 1700:1 vs the GBP. This is exactly why different countries have different rates to each other for pretty much all currencies in the first place.

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  28. Do you all honestly think I am not from the uk? If I am not from the uk please someone tell me where you think I am from. Dinar vets was able to establish I am from the uk so why can't this site?

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    1. Look I really don't know and don't care to be honest if you are from the UK or not. Not knocking UK at all because it is a nice place. It was simply an exercise to show how easily you would get distracted from the real questions being asked regarding your argument for the RV which I believe most of us were really quite interested in reading. I do believe that most if not all on this site are very curious and open-minded individuals and appreciate debating sincere topics even if they are far-fetched. So it appears that you were more interested in answering attack posts than the interesting post. Yes I do admit my posts were daring and attacking but my point is we are much more intelligent than the typical lines being spewed in the dinar community which insult the average intelligence ESPECIALLY when they've been proven to be wrong numerous times exponentially.

      So if you have some real links, information to back your belief for the NO LOP $3 rv we sure would love to see it. Thus far no one has ever been able to provide that. ALL arguments pro-RV have fallen way short.

      But if you just want to continue to post commentary with links at minimum then I think this thread will soon come to an end because no one will fall for that nonsense any longer.

      Good luck to you!!!

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    1. Its certainly possible, I'd say even likely that there are investment opportunities in Iraq that will pay off big. Also a lot that will go south. But investing in companies in Iraq is not remotely like buying IQD.

      Why would you say the M2 figure is inflated? Based on their economy we would expect it to be just about what it is. Check the world bank M2 vs GDP figures and you'll see for yourself. Also (as a mathematician) just think of the scale needed. To RV to $1, round that to 1000x than means the money supply would need to be 1000 times smaller than reported. Out of each 1000 IQD we expect, only 1 actually exists. This would meant that there are no IQD actually in Iraq. Do you really think that is the case?

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    2. The CB's figures are independently audited. If there really were a massively lower than reported money supply in Iraq, Iraq's "street / market" value would be far higher than 1230:1. It's a complete pumper lie that Iraq have been "taking money out of circulation":-

      Iraq's Money supply by Year since the invasion:-
      2004 = 12.25tn Dinar
      2005 = 14.68tn Dinar
      2006 = 21.08tn Dinar
      2007 = 26.95tn Dinar
      2008 = 34.92tn Dinar
      2009 = 45.44tn Dinar
      2010 = 60.26tn Dinar
      2011 = 65.11tn Dinar
      2012 = 72.02tn Dinar
      2013 = 84.18tn Dinar
      http://cbi.iq/documents/Monetary_Aggregates_f.xls

      If you want a World Bank report saying the same thing then here that is too:-

      "The Money and quasi money (M2) in Iraq was last reported at 61393052000000.00 (61tn Dinar) in 2010, according to a World Bank report published in 2012:-"
      http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/money-and-quasi-money-m2-current-lcu-wb-data.html

      I know people love to lap up the conspiracy stuff, but there is no "big secret" here.

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  30. Curious, are you a moderator at any of the sites dinarbeliever?

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  31. Dinarck are you really banned from dinar vets? I did like the stuff you used to post and I have learnt a lot from you guys but I am keeping my dinars and I am guessing that the RV or lop will be over soon- time will tell if either of us is correct

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  32. Whispering299 I am not a moderator for any of the nets dinar sites. I am part of a secret Iraqi dinar group on Facebook. I have been banned from dinar vets twice in the past and I am not allowed to join VIP.

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  33. Does that secret group include Michael Mapes or rather Kaperoni?

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  34. No it does not include gurus it's mainly nurses and a mechanic and couple of people from dinar vets. But no kaperoni

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  35. Of course I am banned from DV. I dont fit Adams business model. If he has to slap in the face the very Vets the site is named after by censoring speech then what does that say about the validity of your "RV"?

    Keep your dinars if you like. Just understand the risk and potential loss. It might be another year or 50 years before they redenominate. Only then will this scam finally die.

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  36. I think kaperoni is one of the more trustful gurus

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    1. Um, not really:-
      http://dinardouchebags.blogspot.co.uk/p/whatd-i-say.html

      All Kaperoni does is link to and endless stream of irrelevant red herring articles about Iraq building new skyscrapers, etc, and hold it up as "proof of the RV". Kaperoni's also the moron who swears "deleting 3 zeros is not a lop". That's like swearing blind "H2O is not water".

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  37. On out Facebook page which is by invite only. We just post news articles and some guru talk. Dinarck I appreciated your views on dinar vets. I'm not surprised you got banned I will lay off the lopsters in future and I will keep most of my comments to myself. Keepem is one of the few lopsters left on dinar vets. Why has keepem not been banned yet?

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  38. There is the biggest problem currently with this investment. Kaperoni has absolutely no idea what he is talking about when he "interprets" articles. Just because he uses articles to base his nonsense on foesn't make him any more trustworthy than an okie or an adam. He just makes it appear more trustworthy. Was just trying to figure out where you were getting all of your Iraqi tv nonsense.

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  39. Whispering299 I get my Iraqi TV nonsense from an Iraqi I know who owns a takeaway in Leeds. He can speak Kurdish and Arabic. He watches Kurd sat TV. He has watched al-iraqiya TV on my behalf. I also have a friend in Saudi and he has an Arabic translator.

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  40. Fair enough on the tv junk. So why do you think the figures reported by the CBI, ON the CBI website, are not correct?

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  41. I think if Iraq is going to RV then they would not give the game away by printing figures which make an RV feasible. I am betting on the dinar because I trust the three people involved with the banks. None of them had an agenda or any reson to lie. I also went to two banks in Essex and met up with one person in question and I spoke to a high up banker in lloyds and a personal banker in Barclays. That's why I won't sell my dinars. I have bought more since this info and I have got more savvy with the Iraqi TV thing. I may have got things incorrect with the Iraqi TV but don't think they are talking about the market rate.

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    1. "If Iraqis going to RV then they would not give the game away by printing figures which make an RV feasible"

      Nor would they be giving it away to bankers to leak it out to world! Of course all that is based on Iraq duping the entire world and all the financial regulatory agencies with this massive lie about their fiances, what a convenient way to explain the "RV".

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    2. Earlier in the thread I wrote this as an example to the twisted "thought processes" of Dinaraholics : "If you agree with me, I'm right, but if you disagree then you must be a CIA agent so I must be twice as right"

      Now look at what you wrote : "I think if Iraq is going to RV then they would not give the game away by printing figures which make an RV feasible"

      What you've written is a perfect example of the same paranoid conspiracy 'double-think' : "If Iraq print low money supply figures then that's proof of an imminent RV, but if they print high money supply figures, then must all be lying so that's proof of an imminent RV".

      With that mindset, you can find "proof of an imminent RV" in a dog turd lying on the pavement.

      Maybe you should get your friends to translate the past broadcasts Iraq has been broadcasting on Alsumaria TV clearly explaining the lop as a lop? There was one two years ago openly describing "you will hand in 1,000 old Dinar and get 1 new Dinar back but that new Dinar will be worth 1,000x more so it balances out and your purchasing power remains the same". It doesn't get more clearer than that. Here's a more recent one that shows up how much of a joke RV forums really are:-

      "The Central Bank of Iraq confirmed on Wednesday, that the project of Iraqi currency redenomination will not be implemented next year [2013], upon the request of specialized parliamentary committees to take more time with this project. We have delayed this project aiming to remove zeros and replace the Iraqi currency”, said the acting Governor of the Central Bank of Iraq, Abdul Basit Turky in a statement to Alsumaria. He stressed that “the project’s timeline has not been determined yet, however it will not take place during next year, i.e. 2013"."
      http://www.alsumaria.tv/news/67699/plan-of-iraqi-currency-redenomination-delayed

      Read that again - Iraq openly broadcast to +30m Iraqi's in 2012 on national TV that no currency changes would take place in 2013. So all these Western pumpers and the amateurish posers running round "RV" forums with fake hype "this weekend!", "imminent", made-up "secret Intel" & "bank stories", etc, all throughout 2013, are basically bald-faced liars living in denial. There's just no polite way of putting that. There is no "RV". There is a redenomination which will not happen before 2014. And Iraqi TV broadcasts have been saying "redenomination" all along. Every single time. It's only Western pumpers who've been falsely translating redenomination -> RV than trying to pass it off as "what they 'really' mean".

      This is one perfect example of the massive bi-polar split from reality of what the RVaholics "believe" and what Iraq is actually saying.

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  42. Ok so you think Iraq is lying to the world and to the people who they have to report proper and true figures to. Thats naive but ok. You have flipped from no rv to rv based upon what someone has said. You have completely brainfarted any information you learnef that told you no rv and changed to rv based on what someone has told you. You are the embodiment of why lying gurus are still at it and why dinar dealers pay lying gurus to continue to lie. Good luck to you.

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  43. It's not just anyone I did not get the info from a guru but real trustworthy people. Imagine a member of your family or friend going to a bank telling you they got asked about the dinar as part of a mortgage interview. You would believe them. I wish you guys all the luck as well.

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    1. Dinarbeliever - "Imagine a member of your family or friend going to a bank telling you they got asked about the dinar as part of a mortgage interview"

      DB, this is another fake "banker story" that's been wildly twisted out of context. When you go for a mortgage, the bank wants to know what assets you have to back it to judge your credit rating in the event you can't pay. That's why they ask you several questions : "Do you have a job & how much do you earn? Do you own any other property? Do you own a car? Do you own any investment / trust funds / stock / shares? Do you own any foreign currency or assets overseas?", etc. Some gullible RV people then jump on the latter question and twist it around in a game of "Chinese Whispers" to mean something it doesn't.

      That gets witnessed all the time primarily out of emotional desperation of being "hooked" on an emotional roller-coaster constantly cycling between abject despair and hysterical euphoria, up & down, up & down, week after week, month after month, year after year, goes the merry pumper ride. Marriages have broken down, people had their homes foreclosed on, even at least one rumoured suicide over the Dinar pumping. People start literally seeing & hearing "proof of the RV" where there simply isn't any.

      As for whether I would blindly believe anything a friend e-mailed me, that depends on whether they understood what they were talking about or simply parroted something that sounded nice out of financial desperation then twisted a perfectly ordinary question around to mean something else. I've had friends e-mail me NESARA / "global prosperity packages" links before telling me to "stop paying my mortgage" because there's a "big secret" where someone's going to step forward with "40 zeros worth of gold" to bail the whole world out and give every $10m each!

      You would think that people hearing that would have the common sense to do the maths first and realise "40 zeros worth of gold" = a sphere of gold half the size of the inner solar system, but some people are so wrapped in with blind greed, they literally shut off the critical thinking part of their brain. Sadly those who did blindly listen to their family about "stop paying your mortgage because a 'blessing' is on its way" being similarly pumped as far back as the 1990's are now homeless.

      Same with the Dinar. They all claim to do "due diligence" but 99% of that consists of Confirmation bias. Reading only what they want to read to "feel good", and hearing only what they want to hear in closed heavily censored environments, like DV, etc. Hanging onto guru's for a new "feel-good fix". That's why you see comments like "Don't lower the tone" (with the truth). That's when people start deliberately lying just to cheer each other up. It's not about "fact-finding", it's often about not wanting to face reality of being hoodwinked by a few silver-tongued scammers.

      Delete
  44. " I may have got things incorrect with the Iraqi TV but don't think they are talking about the market rate"


    Uuummm....yeah....you got it wrong. I tried to explain it to you and Brian even posted a link to help with the correlation between rates.

    Let me get a better understanding.......do you truely believe that Iraqi TV has for over a year really been announcing to Iraqis that the value of the dinar was going to skyrocket overnight in relation to the USD by 1000s or even 100s of 1000s of percent? Is this something that dinar fever has affected the brain enough to believe?
    Have you even stopped to think for a second what that would do to the Iraqi market? Well......for one thing no one would spend their dinar effectively shutting down all commerce. As a matter of fact they would be slaughtering each other for as much as they could steal. And when the increase never happened because its impossible......aww man....camel shite would hit the fan. I mean really.......do you ever even stop to think about reality or are you too far gone into overnight get rich quick fever?

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  45. The bank probably asked people if they had dinar in an interview for a mortgage so they would know to turn them down. Anyone foolish enough to be invested in dinar is not worthy of a bank taking that risk. There are a lot of idiots going into banks and talking about their grand plans post RV.

    Believer... If you believe Iraq is lying about their M2 as you say, and they're lying about it to such a degree that they could support a $3 per dinar rate... then with your great "math skills" could you please explain how they have been offering stacks and stacks and stacks of 25,000 dinar bills to anyone in the world with a few extra dollars or euros for 10 years now?
    Lets say they have $100 billion in reserves. They don't, but let's round up. They could then RV to $3 if they had only 33 Billion dinar. You think they really only have 33 Billion dinar m2?

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    1. You could be right about the risk assessment process, DaveD. I do think though that there might be concerns about foreign currencies, terrorism, and money laundering that prompt these questions (assuming the stories are true). Here's an article on FinCEN and their concerns about the dinar.

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    2. See above post Sam. Banks ask a ton of questions about assets when applying for mortgages. "Do you own any foreign assets or currency" as one of a dozen perfectly ordinary questions ends up wildly contorted into "OMG! I went for a mortgage and the ONLY question I was asked was whether I owned Dinar!" which then takes on a "my banker said..." life-force of its own on rumor forums...

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  46. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. It's too bad you removed this comment RR. I think you have a lot to say on the topic.

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  47. The most sick and twisted part of this scam is the disregard for the Iraqi people amongst the Dinarians, both the con-men and their marks. If your "investment" is money you can afford to lose, then put it towards doing some good for someone else. That $1K you claim not to need is two months of wages for the average Iraqi. I'm sure there are some good direct charities that could use that money to provide needed services to people in a country that has been ravaged by war for over a decade. It's money that could do a lot of good in your home country as well. Nothing involving greed ever turns out well.

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    1. Well apparently DB has no answers to any of the questions he invited us to ask and his "massive" weekend reply as to why he thinks the Dinar will RV has turned out to be nothing but a lame bank story, just another one of many.

      A couple of responses from followers over at DV after he announced his "massive reply"

      One said,

      "I will be anxious to read your information this weekend......give us all the information ya got!!!

      and thanks ahead of time dinarbeliever!!",

      And from another,

      "Look forward to your review of the dinar :) you rock :)",


      This is how gurus are born, they start out telling people exactly what they want to hear and the followers start to line up without bothering to question their new-found idol's creditability.

      LOL, I truly hope these people came here to see their hero trounce the Lopsters with his "MASSIVE REPLY"! (MASSIVE REPLY???, ROTFLMAO!),

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  48. All paper currency is fiat and not MONEY...Buy precious metals and take physical delivery.

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  49. Dinarbeliever, you seem sincere. I think you genuinely believe the dinar will RV. You're user name is quite appropriate. But that doesn't mean you're right. Like most dinarians, you're just delusional. You're blinded by either financial desperation or greed. You WANT the dinar to RV so badly that you can see evidence of it everywhere. Political events, news events, high money supply, low money supply, elections, speeches, everything! When you "believe", you see those things that support your belief. You discard or disregard those things that don't. Why else would you simply ignore the M2 numbers published by the CBI? Here's information you can see for yourself. You can take the information, plug it in to a simple calculation and see for yourself how the current value is determined. You don't need anybody else to do it for you. You don't have to rely on somebody else telling you what someone said or what something did. You don't have to rely on 2nd or 3rd hand bank stories from people. You don't have to trust anonymous users on obsure web sites for information. You can do it yourself. Yet you choose not to. You would rather dismiss verifiable information as some sort of conspiracy in favor of "belief". It is a mental disconnect that I don't understand. I can understand if you don't have the knowledge and feel compelled to place your trust in someone in the beginning. But once you have a chance to access or verify information yourself, why wouldn't you do it? It just makes no sense. Your instinct was right but you let it be trumped by greed! You WANT it to be true. You want to reap a huge windfall for doing nothing. So you put a force field up that allows any piece of data promoting the RV to reach your brain (even if it is fabricated and bogus) and blocks any piece of data that dispels the RV.

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    1. Sincere? Probably but for sure very arrogant! His very first words in his very first post was name calling aimed at everyone here and then he boldly stated,

      "So give me some questions and I will defend my corner"

      yet he simply ignored our questions and then posted only a lame bank story for his "massive reply" that he boldly proclaimed he was going to write up and he even invited his buddies over at DV to see the "Lopsters'' responses here. Did he really expect anyone to believe that nonsensical bank story? I don't know what he expected but he should have known better than to come here with that attitude when he had no more to present than he did!

      Regardless of his intents the result was that he was quickly exposed for the no-nothing that he so obviously is and I hope his admirers saw him for his true colors, for them this should be a lesson on looking up to unknown individuals on the internet just because they are saying what you want to hear!

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  50. Pretty much Networth. Good post. Dinarbeliever isnt a bad person and I dont think even a dinar pumper, just a misinformed individual who has been excited about becoming rich since the day he discovered the dinar. I remember that feeling when my buddy got me involved before I did my own homework. Its a powerful feeling that can be likened to a narcotic like has already been pointed out. With that being said. EVERYBODY has to wake up to reality and end this dinar scam before more people waste the electricity money on dinar. Thats why I cant stand to read hype spread all over the place over at DV without an opportunity to respond. Its dangerous whether the defender of the scam Caz thinks so or not.

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    1. "Thats why I cant stand to read hype spread all over the place over at DV without an opportunity to respond."


      You just made me take a good look at myself and the posts I have made over the last couple of days, posts that probably went a bit overboard because of all the pent-up but now released frustration from reading idiotic non-sense and not being able to respond to it until now. I suppose I could have joined those discussions at any time but I chose not to and it's probably best that I didn't, at any rate I intend to be more careful about what I say here from now on.


      I very often see someone being asked over at DV "why do you bother coming here if you don't believe in this "investment", usually followed by rude and insulting remarks aimed towards the person trying to talk some logic into an otherwise illogical discussion. A better question might be why would I bother to visit a site I'm not even a member of? I think the same answer would apply to both me and most members who don't believe in "The RV", we just despise thieves and scam artists and want to do what we can to stop them! In my case I take it very personal because of the cousin I have mentioned who pesters other family members with this non-sense trying to get them involved and his non-stop talk about his soon-to-be wealth that makes him, to put it bluntly, a PITA at family gatherings! That along with the fact this dummy has wasted on Dinar at least half of the money his mother left him just makes me very angry to think about it, his mom did without some things she wanted so she would be able to leave him something and this idiot has just handed it over to those thieves! Yes I get mad thinking about it and I guess I get a bit carried away when I get the chance to vent but if no one says anything how many other people will get lured into this stupid scam?

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    2. He may not be a pumper but he sure does sound like one with that ridiculous bank story. Also saying you once went from not believing to now believing is just another tactic to get people to listen to you. If he's not a pumper and is truly sincere then I hope with all the info that was provided in this thread that he finally wakes up because as much as some may want to, you can't deny facts. If he chooses to ignore this and still be a cheerleader over on DV then there's clearly no help for him. Its not about having an open mind or having "faith", it's about reality.

      Dinarbeliever, as you can see, this is not a censored site like DV and I don't know how you thought you could come here with that story after all the suspense and not expect an epic beat down. You clearly need a better understanding of the things you read and twist around to fit your beliefs. Everything you need to know is right here. Don't be ignorant and ignore it.

      BTW, Caz is by far the most annoying at DV and easyrider is the most delusional on DV. He's not a pumper, he's just really ignorant. The ones that have been around long enough know exactly who dontlop is and his agenda. Markinsa is the biggest hypocrite I've ever come across on that site. DV has become a site filled with tea party, bible thumping, conspiracy theorists. Which explains why they believe in this nonsense.

      Keep up the good fight Sam!!!

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    3. Why does Caz spend so much time defending the liars and gurus? According to him a dinar dealer flat out lying in order to sell dinar is no different than a car salesman saying the Accord is better than the Camry or a weatherman not being 100% accurate in weather predictions.

      4,318 posts of pumping and nonsense. The guy is a piece of garbage.

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  51. BGG is both confused AND a BS'er! and now his sidekick poopy is now again saying the DONG is going to rv soon. this guy is senile! he continues to proclaim he has all these Washington insider contacts along with some rabbi in Iraq. now correct me if I am wrong, but Iraq is a Muslim country, what would a freakin rabbi be doing there? then we have BGG who ripped all sorts of people off with some golf scam and is now doing the same it seems with his ongoing dinar rv predictions and bull! previously back in 2010 and 2011, BGG has called the rv more times than I can count. he is also heavily supported by dinar corp who has an F rating with the BBB and cannot sell dinar now in 3 states. and like I mentioned a few weeks ago, when BGG and I had some email exchanges, all he did was threaten lawsuits. LOL.......but all our emails were forwarded to that IVY guy at dinar corp. now why would BGG do that if they weren't wrapped up with dinar corp more than the obvious?? any emails between BGG and anyone should have nothing to do with IVY. these clowns are just as bad as THC tony and okie the moron etc.....they are no better, they just pump differently! of course on BGG's conference calls he claims to have "deep" contacts in Iraq. all the sheeple believe this ongoing daily dose of lies and bulls*t.....its sad these guys have no life other than singing on to chat rooms every single day like clockwork to see if BGG or poopy will throw them a bone of "intel" for the day. LOL.....sad people!

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    1. Maybe straying off the topic a bit here but I have been wondering something, would anyone have a reasonably accurate estimate of the number of Dinar being held by speculators? I am asking because it seems to me that given the shear numbers of speculators holding Dinar, with a huge percentage holding at least 1,000,000 or more, it would seem that the amount would be many billions just in the hands of speculators? Thoughts on this?

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    2. I haven't a clue but it doesn't really matter. I tend to agree with you. I'm certain it's more than a billion. One billion is only 1,000 million. Heck I probably know a couple family members that, combined, have over 50 million dinar themselves. Based on the comments people made when I frequented the forum, it wouldn't surprise me if it's over 1 trillion. One trillion is 1,000,000 million but some of those people claimed they had tens of millions themselves. Even if they wised up to the scam and sold them, those dinar are still in existence somewhere (very likely in the US). It's not like dinar can be "unmade" or "unprinted". The only way those dinar don't exist is if they were lost or destroyed. Once they're created, they exist forever, despite what our friend Enorrste claims about notes being "voluntarily" turned in (so the CBI can revalue). LOL! In the end, it doesn't matter. A dinar is a dinar anywhere in the world.

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  52. dwm, in 2012 Ali of Dinar Trade admitted selling over 500 billion dinar. I think the exact number was 577 million USD worth of dinar. Should be easy enough to Google if you want verification.

    That's only one company, in only one year. Based on that I guarantee there's over a trillion dinar in the hands of speculators in the US alone.

    One time I added up all the dinar that had sold (not just listed, actually sold) on eBay in one day and if I recall correctly it was 350 million dinar. Just on eBay, just in one day. That'd be another 120 billion dinar a year, if my math (and memory) is correct.

    There's obviously has been enough sold to more than prove that this is a total scam. People like dinarbeliever can pin their hopes and dreams on lies as much as they want, it's their prerogative, but the FACTS are:

    If there weren't many trillions of dinar in circulation, you wouldn't have 25,000 dinar notes as common as cat crap.
    Dinartrade wouldn't be able to sell 500 billion in a year if there weren't many trillions of dinar in circulation (and Dinartrade has zero reason to lie, as it proves the investment they're selling is a dead end).
    You wouldn't see millions and millions for sale on eBay every day if there weren't trillions in circulation.
    There was an article in January of this year about a few people getting stopped at the Canada border with ~7 million dollars in dinar. That's over 8 billion dinar just in the hands of a few people. At dinarbelievers 2 dollar rate, that tiny group of people would own around 10% of Iraqs oil production for a year. Insanity. This one is also easy to Google.

    There are many, many facts that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Iraq has trillions and trillions of dinar out there.
    What evidence in there that it's only in the billions, as would be required for dinarbelievers 2 dollar rate to come true? Absolutely none. It's wishful thinking based on greed, desperation, ignorance, stupidity, whatever. A 2 dollar rate would require there to be no more than 100 billion or so dinar worldwide (even that number is far too generous, realistically more like 40 billion hard cash). Ali sold 5 times that in one year. Do the math.

    A trillion dinar in the US is very easy to believe once you realize all it means is that 300,000 speculators (a mere 0.1% of the US population) have 3.5 million dinar each (about the average from what I've gathered due to numerous polls on the subject over the years).

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  53. Meant to type "In 2012 Ali admitted that he sold over 500 billion during 2011". I'm guessing sales dropped off in 2012 and 2013, and weren't as high in 2009/2010 either. Ali has probably sold over a trillion all by himself though. Even if he only averaged 1/5th of his peak in the rest of the years between 2008 and 2013 inclusive, he still sold over a trillion.

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    1. gt, thanks for the info, that's about what I was thinking but was not at all sure although I did seem to remember someone saying Ali had sold over 500 billion. I was talking with someone today and trying to explain why Iraq can not "RV" to even $1, never mind $3+, because of the Dinar in circulation but he was insistent that Iraq has been "sucking in the Dinar" for the last few years. This is of course 100% USDA certified Bull$#!^ but lots of folks believe it, I made the statement that just the amount of Dinar in the hands of speculators would probably add up to more than Iraq's reserves if it were suddenly to become worth a Dollar or more but I got laughed at.

      I just fail to understand how people can not see the problem with the amount in circulation, a glaring example comes from the economic genius Markinsa over at DV a couple of weeks ago. When he said in reply to the statement that the reason a RV could not occur was 84 trillion Dinar he came up with this bit of brilliance,

      "Don't you think you're over exaggerating the number of reasons? Really the only thing that's going to make an impact, if/when they revalue, is their currency in Circulation. In June, there was only 34 Trillion Dinar in circulation, which is roughly $30 Billion US."

      "ONLY" 34 trillion Dinar in circulation?????? Like it may be impossible to RV 84 trillion but "ONLY" thirty trillion is possible! Don't these idiots realize that even one trillion to a $1 "RV" is completely impossible given Iraq's current reserves but he seems to think that "ONLY" 34 trillion should not be a problem? That's what brought up the question of speculator holdings during the conversation I was having with the fella I mentioned, if just the speculators in the US came forward demanding to "cash-in" for Dollars just where would those Dollars come from since Iraq does not have enough Dollars to cover even speculator holdings at 1 to 1!

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  54. I wouldnt doubt if there was 5 to 10 trillion in speculators hands world wide. Australia, Russia, Japan, China, Israel just to name a few. The world is a big place and this scam has been going on for a decade.

    The whole "Iraq has been sucking in Dinar for years" dream is a joke. What are they giving for them in return? USD? So Iraq is paying 10s of billions of US dollars to by back dinar that they are going to "RV" into 10s of trillions of USD worth? Does anyone with half a brain believe this? Why did they sell it in the first place? Why not just print a 100 trillion units and "RV" them to each equal a dollar? Why doesnt every country on earth do this?

    So what do they do with them after they "suck" them in? Destroy them? Put them in a vault? Why destroy 10s of billions in wealth just to "RV" the remaining? If they put them in a vault then why do they then get to "RV" essentially creating 10s of trillions of USD worth of wealth for themselves out of thin air. Again......who could really believe this stupidity?

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  55. Have to be careful about that claim. Iraq does kinda suck back dinar at a rather large rate.
    http://www.cbi.iq/documents/CBI_FOREIGN_EXCHANGE_AUCTIONS.pdf
    You can see here their currency auctions which they have about 5 times a week. Banks sell dinar back to the CBI for Dollars. The amounts are generally in the 100 to 200 million dollars a day worth. That’s 100 to 200 billion dinar a day that’s bought back by the CBI. About ¾ of that is usually electronic and about ¼ is hard currency. Take the average of about 150 billion dinar a day… that would be 39 Trillion dinar a year they are buying back. Again, mostly electronic.
    Here’s where their story falls apart. Iraq has a budget of about 80 trillion dinar a year right. Some of that government spending is done with dollars they get from oil, but the majority of the spending is in dinar. The very same dinar they bought back at the auctions. Plus… PLUS… they have to spend even more than they bought back and that’s why the M2 numbers continue to grow every year.
    I guess dinarbeliever and the others must think those numbers are made up also. If they are lying about the massive amounts of dinar out there, they must also be lying about the amounts bought back right.
    Most don’t understand the flow of money in Iraq. It’s a big circle. They sell oil for dollars (and some euros and other currencies, but mostly dollars) They use those dollars to run the country. They use some of those dollars for Gov international spending, but most are used to buy back dinar at the auctions which they turn right around and put back into the system through government domestic spending. So the dinar flows in and out of the Gov and it’s fueled by dollars from oil sales. The more oil that sells for dollars the more the Government can spend dinars domestically and then buy them back.
    The US does this (hypothetically) through taxes. We are supposed to take in a certain amount in taxes and then government spending is supposed to equal that. Iraq has practically no tax system.
    One question I like to ask them is… If all these banks are so aware of this soon to be 100,000 to 300,000% RV of the dinar, it’s blinking on backscreens right? Then why are these banks showing up at the auctions every day demanding that the CBI buy back 150 Billion dinar?

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    1. I think that big circle is what they are referring to when they say "floating orbit of exchange". The orbit is just the circulation of currency. It's not a reference to a float like some are saying.

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    2. You are correct of course Dave. I was simply referring to dinarians being convinced that Iraq was somehow making dinar disappear. Its hilarious how many still think that the auctions are pulling dinar out of circulation never to be seen again. They literally think the auctions were set up so that the M2 could be reduced enough for Iraq to RV and make them rich. Its laughable.

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  56. Here another way to think of the auctions.
    The Iraq Central Bank has an action almost every day. At this auction the CBI offers to buy or sell dollars and they also offer to buy or sell dinar. The CBI sets the rate and that’s it. The banks participating in the auction make the decision of what and how much they want to deal. The banks have huge amounts of dinar and they sell those dinar back to the CBI for dollars. They do this because the demand for dinar is poop and the demand for dollars is huge.
    If there was any truth what so ever to the absolutely stupid rumors of a big RV, that process would be the exact opposite. The banks would be buying dinar as fast as the CBI could print it (or process the numbers in a computer).
    The other thing that’s overlooked is if the scammers RV rumor was thought to be true, the street value of the dinar would already be sky high. If it was truly thought that the rate would be $1 per dinar sometime soon. You wouldn’t be able to buy a dinar for anything less than about 85 cents. Real investor would buy up every dinar in existence for a sure fire 10 or 20% gain, let alone some ridiculous fantasy gain of 100,000% or more.

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  57. Part 1 -

    Well for me it's a bit difficult to speculate what a good number of dinar is out in the "dinarian" community as they call it but certainly a minimum of 1 trillion is very plausible. However, there was a lawsuit with Grossi v. Sterling Currency Group in 2012 where it is noted that they were making MILLIONS of dollars MONTHLY in PROFITS alone. "By 2010, the business of dinarbanker.com had dramatically increased, resulting in monthly profits in the millions of dollars." Holy Moly!!! Drug dealers must be angry they're in the wrong business!!!! If that is profits what are the total sale of dinar?? Hmm... Now that is the question because we know there are many that sell back dinar and it gets recycled out the door based on guru/pumper hyped & failed predictions but there are far more getting in than there are getting out of that wet dream.

    Fairly enough you must question how much of it is in dinar sales although I will go out on a limb saying it is probably 95%+ and not in other currency. In fact, back in 2010, I believe they were only selling dinar and possibly DONG but I'm not certain as that was before my time. When I was considering getting in Dinar Banker (now Sterling Currency Group) was one dealer I researched and their website was way different than it is now with all of the currencies offered.

    Let's look at the mark up of the Iraqi dinar is by Sterling Currency using the average cost of $1,080/ million dinar which is what most dealers charge. If you calculate the per dinar cost of the dealer it is .001080 (1080 divided by 1,000,000) as opposed to the market rate of .000856. Now multiply each one of those rates by 1,000,000 and you will come up with the market cost for the dinar vs. what the dealer is charging and profiting. If you do the numbers correctly the market cost of Iraqi dinar is $856 per million as opposed to $1,080 per million the dealers are charging. That is a $224 profit per million. So do the numbers as to how much these dealers are profiting. In fact they HOPE there is no revalue because it would kill their game. People will argue that dealers charge that much because banks no longer sell so there is no competition. I totally agree. But ask yourself why would banks give up making this kind of profit or even half if the RV were plausible or imminent?? Answer is simple... They are financial, economic, currency professionals who study the markets, countries, governments,etc. Money Service Businesses have no clue. They will tell you that and infact Frank Bell on a call with The Gatekeepers earlier this year admitted it on their call that they don't know about a lot of what is going on with economics and governments.

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  58. Part 2 -

    As a side note, I was curious what they were currently selling Chinese Renminbi / Yuan and calculated their mark up. It's a staggering $.06 above market price at $.22 / yuan, while Travelex (airport exchangers) mark up is $.01 selling at $.17. The rate on XE.com for instance is $.16 although Bank of America is $.15 1/2 cents. If you were to buy YUAN at Bank of America you'll realize that the difference in cost from them to Sterling Currency is nearly 32% cheaper.

    While that may not seem huge start calculating as you purchase like $5,000 worth of YUAN and the costs quickly increase in gap.


    http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20GACO%2020120123179


    My point is dinar dealing, sorry "Money Service Business" as they call themselves legally, is a very lucrative business so it is not hard to see why so many gurus/pumpers are on the take by these dinar pimps. I love it when I see groups like The Gatekeepers swear they are NOT gurus/pumpers yet they hold multiple calls weekly RELIGIOUSLY reading stupid articles from Iraq about nonsense that is not even dinar related but they will somehow claim it is related and if you don't understand you are clueless, stupid and should get out of the investment. Well check their website and you'll see they advertise for Sterling Currency and Dinar Inc. Yeah NO ONE commits to spending 20+ hours a week between calls and article researching out of the kindness of their heart. Sorry,,, not in this business. Vic & Joey who I call Heckle and Jeckle love to bash other gurus as part of their facade of "being on your side". Joey is a used car salesman as it is obvious with the tactics and Vic is a well, sh!t talking buffoon who's performed every occupation in the world with contacts all over the world he could lure in as proof of rv but he doesn't need to because the articles speak for themselves. Well if that is true then thank you. There is going to be a LOP!!!!! Then MAYBE at some point an increase in the value of the dinar if Iraq is able to develop as a country and outside investment begins to pour in all though that in and of itself does not dictate an "RV".

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    1. Indeed. The first thing to come out of nearly every guru's mouth is "I'm not a guru!". Usually accompanied by a stream of fake "Christian" / "veteran war hero" stories...

      vinny - "In fact they HOPE there is no revalue because it would kill their game"

      Bingo. No-one wants an RV - they make their money getting rid of Dinar at 20% over market price, not hoarding it.

      vinny - "But ask yourself why would banks give up making this kind of profit or even half if the RV were plausible or imminent??"

      This is really the most obvious "elephant in the room" that even the most mathematically illiterate person needs to ask themselves : "If something really is going to be worth 1,000x more tomorrow, then why are YOU selling it now!"

      Better still, RVAaholics need to phone up the "Money Services Business" (cowboys) who they bought dinar off and say : "Hey, if this is going to be worth 1,000x more soon, then you could buy back my Dinar at 10x market rate now, and you'll still make 100x profit!" and post the funny replies they give. LOL.

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  59. The easiest way to see that the auctions are one side of a loop is that they have been in the neighborhood of 30T to 50T IQD a year (matching imports as the CBI tries to restrict dollar buyers to import use) for 5 years and at a lower level for 5 years before that. If there was not some mechanism to put them back into the money supply, there would have been no IQD left at all many years ago. That mechanism (as others have said) is the GOI exchanging the USD it gets in oil revenues for IQD to fund all its domestic programs.

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  60. Another obvious problem (well it should be anyway) with "sucking in" Dinar through the auctions in order to make it possible to "RV" is the amount that would need to be removed from circulation. The Dinar in circulation would have to be reduced to billions from trillions, I would think it would have to be reduced all the way down to around 75 billion or so to "RV" to even $1 given their current reserves so how are they supposed to operate the economy as the amount dwindles at the current exchange rate? Or better yet how are they supposed to operate after they pay out every dollar in their reserves to speculators? Oh I forgot, as that economic wizard Sonny1 explained some time back since the Dinar will be worth more after the "RV" they will not need Dollars anymore, absolutely BRILLIANT! At the current rate of 1166 the Dinar would have become very scarce indeed if the numbers had fallen even to a couple of trillion never mind down into the billions that it would have to fall to but does anyone see any scarcity of this stuff? I would think if the numbers had actually dropped as the dreamers claim then Iraq would not be able to keep the market price low even if they wanted to, the official exchange rate maybe but the street rate would skyrocket I would think. The truth is they can't even keep the street rate up close to the official exchange rate because even Joe Iraqi doesn't want that worthless paper because there is so much of it around. We could go on and on but these idiot "investors" will not see the logic even when it's right in their face, the things that worry me most however is these people breed and vote!

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  61. Since it's near the end of the year, I'll make some predictions about 2014.

    Adam Montana will tell his followers at least 15 times that he is "encouraged" by the progress being made in the Iraqi Parliament. He'll offer discounts for his VIP membership at least 6 times and he'll "suspend" any further VIP memberships at least once on the back of some "exciting" news out of Iraq.

    TNT Tony will call the revaluation at least 60 times during the year. He won't move much past the $38 number for fear of looking ridiculous. LOL!

    Loechin will call the RV at least 60 times during the year to "confirm" TNT Tony.

    Okie will call the RV at least 60 times to "confirm" TNT Tony. Okie will represent the golden trifecta of 3 "separate" confirmations. He will continue to claim he has exclusive permission to announce the RV to the world. LOL!

    Poppy will call the RV of the dinar at least 30 times and the RV of the dong 10 times during the year. He will claim his contacts have been the most reliable.

    Styker will continue to be confused and get very offended at the characterization.

    Frank and Blaino will emerge from hiding and get back in the RV prediciton game. Blaino will claim a non-disclosure agreement kept him from talking about what was REALLY going on. LOL! Frank will continue to berate his followers for their lack of "faith".

    At least three new posters will emerge claiming to have great contacts and information about the RV. They will become regular contributors to one of the dinar forums. At least one will claim to have some sort of education or training in economics and previous work experience with either the IMF, ECB or World Bank.

    At least 200 bank stories will be posted in the various dinar forums. Nearly everyone will have a story about a cousin's, half-brother's, best friend's, neighbor's, housekeeper's, son getting the ole "wink, wink" from the bank clerk when they innocently went to ask about the dinar. LOL!

    The boys from BH Group will be re-indicted (not a difficult prediction to make sinc ethe US Attorney has already stated his intent to do that). At least one other dealer or web site operator will be criminally indicted or become the defendant to a civil suit during the year.

    Sadly, I predict at least 6,000 people will die in sectarian and civil strife in Iraq in 2014 (also not a hard prediction to make).

    Forbes will publishes at least 2 more articles warning people about the dinar scam. Within 1 week those articles will be full of comments from dinarians mocking the author as wrong or stupid.

    Now, the only question is: who's going to keep track of all these sites and predictions to know if I'm right? Because I'm sure not going to do it.

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    1. I predict that Maliki will most likely either lose an election if the 2 term law is not in effect. But when he is gone and the RV still has not happen there will be conflict in the dinar community as to who was right or wrong about it either being a Maliki or Obama hold up. Gurus will have to break out their "get creative advanced manual" to keep the lie going. Can't wait to see how many pastors will get fired from churches for continuously failed predictions too!!!! LOL

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    2. I predict that Breitling will announce at least twice that the ISX Report is going on sale, and that he will do another interview with John Ayling from LD Holdings (the stock is down to 40 cents) to pump the share price back up. I predict that Phoenix will interview a bisexual space alien from the future who will tell us what the outcome of the dinar and bitcoin will be. I predict that Kap and Enorrste will still be talking about the float at the end of 2014, and Randy Koonce and Poppy will still be dismissing the idea of a float while they still predict an imminent revaluation. And finally I predict that Mountain Goat will fade off into the sunset while another fresh face emerges at TNT Tony's site to pump new life into the RV scam.

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  62. So as of today Sterling Currency Group is giving away 10 (1k) notes with each 1 million dinar shipped. Why would they be giving away triple zero notes if an RV is imminent? Wouldn't that be like giving away $30,000+ to those $3+ believers?? Hmmmm... The evidence just keeps thickening huh!! lol..

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  63. Well it seems our buddy Dinarbeliever has decided not to "defend his corner" any more and I noticed over at DV they seem to be mysteriously quiet about the "massive reply" which some of them were so anxiously awaiting! One of the "Lopsters" (not sure if calling him by name is ok or not) did mention in one of the posts that,

    "Yes, mr. believer limped away from that other site with his rear end draped over his shoulders just like I thought he would... He got smoked.
    Very entertaining."


    LOL, That he did! However the comment strangely went unacknowledged and no one said any more about it!

    After all of DB's bluster and his bold statement he was "here to defend his corner" he seemed to lose the wind from his sails rather quickly but to his credit he did not continue with senseless arguing of indefensible points and even admitted that if Iraq's stated M2 was in fact true (which it is) then a RD (LOP) is very likely. Thank you DB for getting some of your pals to come here to a site where the truth is not suppressed to see for themselves what it's really like, this place is like a breath of fresh air after the stench of manure from the other Dinar sites!

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    1. LOL... Well like they say,,, you mess with fire you are bound to get burned.

      Personally I think he knew he wasn't going to present ANY argument nonetheless evidence with links so he figured he would just try to get the forum riled up. Well he got a good tongue lashing at minimum. Sadly for him his tactic failed miserably. Although he won't admit he was way over his head here he did prove that the folk here are legitimate, intelligent, logical, resourceful, and critical thinkers who don't fall for the Cow Chips anymore as he and the rest of his followers do. If they want to come here and talk trash they better be ready with some verifiable evidence at minimum. I'm sure he has many others dissuaded from coming here with BS.

      On a comical note, when I saw the number of posts to this thread nearing 100 I immediately thought Okie must have posted here. LMAO!!! Sheeeeit!!!

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    2. A redenomination is both a political and economic decision so its hard to say how likely it is. They have been talking about it for years, so they may do it, or they may not. Iraq's 80+T money supply and $80B foreign reserves means they can not RV by more than about 15% (even for legit reasons like fighting inflation). So it isn't exactly that an RD is likely (since who knows what the GOI will do), but that an RV is imposible. The issue is not RD or RV, but RD or leave the currency as is (just reprint new 000 bills with the Kurdish language at some point).

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    3. 12 - 10 - 2013


      The parliamentary Economic Committee, announced the postponement of a draft Central Bank raising the zeros of the Iraqi currency to the next parliamentary session.

      Committee Member said the Deputy from the Kurdistan Alliance, najeeba Najib, both in Iraq, that "delete zeros from the former Department of the Central Bank in times of Sinan Al-Shabibi Former Bank Governor".

      "There were preparations and preparations by the Department on restructuring of the Iraqi currency, delete the zeros, and they had good steps taken by them on this issue and were awaiting Government approval to start the project.

      Najib said that "the new administration of the Central Bank, headed by Abdel Basset Turki Agency has other plans and procedures", indicating that they are "looking to raise zeros that is premature."

      The Deputy Minister for the Kurdistan Alliance, of zeros that "need" for the figures in the current currency is counted, but the Central Bank's decision to choose the time of implementation of this project. "

      Smart expressed the belief that "the parliamentary elections to make the Central Bank is considering to delay the implementation to delete zeros or restructuring the currency beyond the elections and the formation of a new Government.

      http://goo.gl/61QpXF


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    4. RIGHT!!! "..to delay the implementation to delete zeros or restructuring the currency beyond the elections and the formation of a new Government."

      So all the gurus and pumpers better understand that means at least 6-12 months at very minimum before they decide to redenominate. But they will still refute and contest it because they are psychotic. lol...

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  64. My ultimate favorite thing is when the CBI website "goes down". Every time it's nothing and standard maintenance but that never stops the intelligent posters on DV from getting their panties soaked in excitement about it.

    I feel sorry for anyone that's been in this scam for more than a couple months and haven't realized it yet. Adam and his VIP hype are entertaining. Closed VIP due to ch 7 and said no new members. so hurry and get your membership before this date or you'll regret it!!! Lol. How lost are the ones that fall for that. Meanwhile it's still open and still discounts to get in. SUCKERS.

    Dinarbeliever is very quiet on DV. I hope he woke up finally and sees this for what it is.....A SCAM!!

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    1. I think it's very possible that DB actually does (did?) believe his own non-sense because when he posted that stuff "over there" he got patted on the back and encouraged instead of having to face the truth! When he came here and and tried spouting that same garbage he was met with common sense and logic instead of high fives and suddenly his posts looked just plain silly when contrasted against the uncensored truth. I think maybe even he could see it then and that's why his argument fell apart so quickly.

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  65. Wow!

    Fireball92: OPEN LETTER TO UST & IMF ADMINISTRATION

    I write this respectfully and humbly but candidly.

    I have been pondering all that has transpired these last days and what has been reported. Am I to deduce that the administration of UST & IMF has such poor opinion of us, the average American citizen as to delay the global reset of this importance.

    Are we, the average American citizen in the USA, viewed to be in the same psycho-social category as the riot prone tinderbox middle east?

    Am I to believe and understand that officials in my government view me and my peers in similar light as rebels in poverty torn South American or African republics?

    My fellow Americans working in government, lend me your ear!
    ....
    Read More Link on Right
    Let me introduce you to my friends and colleagues. Meet my fellow Dinar holders. (From reading the writings and chats...) The 'average Dinarian' is Nana Mary, grandmother and wife. Then there is Papa John, grandfather, husband and retired Chiropractor who is always preaching USA-supporting-patiotism and God.

    Like most Dinarians they are involved in community and church. And, Bobby BlueCollar, father of three who works 50-60 hours per week at the General Tire Plant and struggles to keep the kids in clothes and put food on the table along with household costs.

    On this site, I have corresponded with attorneys and doctors, truck drivers and waitresses and nurses, small business owners and computer nerds, etc. Most all these citizens have expressed their love of God and country.

    They have discussed how we, the new upper middle class can use our new found wealth to help other Americans who are hurting and how we can help our hurting America by improving business and starting new ones.

    I have taken time and space to describe those I have met on these sites, hoping to bring a different image to your mind. Rather than the apparent image of the TV sitcom animated Family Guy 'Peter' run amok; Yes, he would get drunk, go to a bank, raise cane and make demands.

    To have a more true image of the average Dinar holding American, simply think of those people that sat around your dinner table on Thanksgiving Day. In the USA a couple weeks ago, most Americans met with their families. Yes, real mothers, fathers, siblings, uncles, aunts, etc. Imperfect American families that always have member who are wonderful people, lovely, hard working, salt of the earth, snobs, holier than thou, tuffys and idiots. You know, FAMILY!

    Just like most families seen in government official homes last week. Now ask yourselves, ''Which one's could be wise and strong enough to be a Dinar holder?

    On these sites we do have a trait not so prevalent in the world today. HOPE and FAITH. We believe that America can be great again. We believe that we can be wealthy and have great things.

    Yes, that is true, but at the same time wanting to help helping others. The final trait noted here that is so much evident than in the average population, is an uncanny high percent of goodness and a lack of prevalent greed.

    These Dinar holders are people that can be trusted as you have been trusted. These people have stepped forward to help the USA. Yes, there will be idiots. We have them here, and they work in factories, offices and in the UST and IMF.

    We all have to deal with them as a part of life. But that percentage is so very small. Remember that President Ronald Regan liked quoting, "TRUST but verify". So Trust, but have security for the idiots.

    I hope you enjoyed the tour. I really can not wait to meet many of these people in person because of all I have just described and have made it seem reasonable. I hope I have adequately portrayed what you are 'up against'; Not a mob of Family Guy Peters on crack...

    This is a group of goodhearted, law abiding Americans you can embrace with confident authority and with clearly defined parameters, you will be met with peaceful and polite compliant citizens.

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    1. WTF??!!!! LMFAO.... I'm at a loss for kind words. SMH... Come 2015 the letters will be more graphic I suppose.

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  66. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. There's absolutely nothing you can post that will lead to an RV. It's not real DB. All you're doing is reading into nonsense. Don't say you have a life and that's why you haven't posted. Before this you were pretty active on DV. Instead of posting your opinion why it will RV, how about you answer the questions asked here that you said you would answer.

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    2. That's right. DV is watching DB as he has been humbled with facts and reality. I guess it's not easy to have to go back to DV with the tail between the legs. But quite frankly we don't expect any answers to even one of the questions because he's a day late and a dinar short. Perhaps DB should get a 'life line' or 'ask a friend' from DV such as Adam M. to come help him defend their mutual belief of the imminent rv.

      Delete
  67. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. DB this should help you tremendously. Then you can go back to CBI get their numbers and use your mathematical skills to attempt to come up with anything remotely close to an RV. Several here have provided excellent explanations and examples defending a "no rv possibility".

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

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    2. Wow DB, you don't know what M0, M1, and M2 are yet you claim to think an RV is possible? What did you base this on, tea leaves?

      M0 = physical cash (not at the CBI since they issue cash they can print or burn whatever they want, its the cash issued, or outside the CBI hat matters). This is about 30+T IQD
      M1 = M0 + on demand bank deposits (checking and savings, anything that freely exchanges to/from cash with no restrictions). This is about 70T IQD, maybe even 75T
      M2 = M1 + non on demand deposits (so more complex instruments, CDs etc that have penalties for early withdrawal). This is around 80+T IQD.

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    3. That's precisely the problem. These scams are a perfect storm of ignorance, financial desperation (or greed), and the internet. Everybody jumps into this dinar boat because some clown told them the dinar is undervalued. It used to have a high value, now it has a low value so it will have a high value again some day. Yet how many people have the slightest idea how to determine the value of money? How many people even know what money is? Very few. But, on the surface, it seems like that may be true. They know they can buy a lot of dinar for one dollar. That's where most people stop. They assume that if you can buy a lot of something, it must be "on sale" or discounted. And even if it isn't on sale, at least you have a lot of them now. But does that mean it's undervalued? No. The only way to know is to find out how many currency units exist. The CBI very clearly tells you. M2 is the total money supply. It includes actual, physical paper currency and coins and electronic units credited to bank accounts. M0 and M1 are just components of M2. M2 is the only thing that matters. In Iraq, the M2 is almost 85 trillion. That means 85,000,000,000,000 currency units exists. Even if people don't know much about currency, they know that's a big number. If people knew there were that many currency units in existence they would very likely figure that each unit is never going to have much value. But the scammers and pumpers go out of their way to to avoid or dismiss that information. To them, it's just a function of "history" or "destiny" or "inevitability". Because it once was, it shall be again. People are financially desperate (or greedy) enough that they don't want to know any more. As soon as they learn that thousands of other people have bought dinar just like them, that's enough confirmation. Groupthink kicks in. People don't believe that thousands of other people could make the same decision without knowing what they were doing. There's no need to look it up or research it. Out of thousands of people, surely several people already have. But they haven't. They've assumed the same thing. They figured somebody has done due diligence on this. The few that have done it get promptly booted from the forums. Obviously, for a scam to perpetuate, it's very important that only information that advances the scam is known. So people continue to operate, assumingly, on the assumption that all this information has been vetted. M2 is the money supply. It's the most important thing to know. If you know it, even if you don't know anything else, you should instinctively know that the dinar is not going to massively revalue. It's not just unlikely or inplausible. It's impossible.

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    4. I'm glad to see the testosterone level drop a bit as we try to have a civil discussion. I think it's much more productive. Dinarbeleiver I admire your willingness to be educated about this, and your willingness to accept the worst case scenario if proven wrong. Nobody wanted this big RV more than I did. I remember how I felt the day that I discovered what deleting the zeros meant. I felt like Mortimer Duke in Trading Places when he realized he'd lost his fortune. It was dreadful. But I got over it and got on with my life. Some of the people who misled me about the RV were scammers, but others were just misled themselves. I recall one day hearing from somebody I trusted that the IMF made it clear to Iraq that if they don't RV the IMF will take the controls and do the RV themselves. I was so jazzed I couldn't contain myself. I told a few other people and we were all ready to cash in. That was three years ago. Since then we've all come to realize that it was baseless. I hear that rumour again from time to time and remember the effect it had on me, so I realize what these rumours can do to others. But as has been mentioned the facts prevail. The money supply is in dinars. Tens of trillions. The IMF monitors those numbers. Ernst & Young do the audits. The numbers are real, and they're fatal to any big RV. About all that any dinar investor can hope for at this point is to squeak out a bit of a profit, and that's a longshot. Best of luck to you.

      Delete
  68. Also callingfoolsout I work shifts so sometimes I can be active on dinar vets. I am working nights at the moment so that's why I am not as active on dinar vets. I am here on this site because I want to learn more as to why you guys think its impossible for Iraq to RV. Go lop !!!!

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    1. All the info you need to lead to the impossibility of an RV is not only in this thread but throughout this blog. Oh and the facts that well over 30 trillion dinar exist in circulation lol.

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    2. Dinarbeliever, this has already been explained to you here and here. I hope you're not of those people who ask questions, ignore truthful answers you don't want to hear, then keep asking the same questions over and over hoping for a different answer?

      Beside the onus is on you to prove it's right, not everyone else to prove it's wrong (every though we already have). There is no "RV" and never has been.

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  69. The figures published by the CBI is in dinars for their M0,M1, and M2. Is it possible that the M's are in dollars and what's reported is their value in dinars.

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    1. Lol, is that a serious question. Hahaha

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    2. Stop being a smart arse and teach me. If the dinar is a scam and I am a hopeless dinar addict then your help will be appreciated to help me conquer this terrible affliction

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    3. It very clearly says "Money Supply (End of period , in billions of Iraqi dinars)", (A84) from here:-
      http://cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls

      You're grasping at straws now. The reason people are being a bit snarky is because this has already been explained to you over and over. In fact, I answered your query on it the other day here with a link you can verify yourself.

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  70. I am asking because Iraq has two currencies ie the dollar and the IQD with the dollar being king. Can the M's contain dollars as well as dinars - I want you guys to teach me rather than ridicule me.

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    1. No. The "M's" are in IQD. It is a pumper myth that Iraq is a wash in dollars. If this was true, why do dollars command a HIGHER price on the street than the official CBI rate? Because they are in demand and people will pay for them. The auctions are restricted to import use (just how the CBI regulates that I do not know, but the use of the auctions for import is in one of the CBI docs and if you add up all the auction amounts it equals their imports).

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    2. No. See above. Iraq has printed 84tn (84,000bn) IQD and they have only $80bn of reserves to back its value. This is why its rate is under 1000:1. It's isn't "undervalued" by any metric. There is no "big secret". "Dollarisation" (the use of the $ by Iraqi private citizens as an unofficial currency due to loss of faith in the Dinar) isn't included in any official figures as part of the Dinar's money supply. It's part of American's money supply not Iraq's no matter where the banknotes are on the planet.

      What you're really saying is : "I agree that figure seem high, but I really don't want to believe it, please tell me differently", to which the answer is: Yes, it's really true, Iraq have printed such a massive amount of money - almost 3,000x more money than Kuwait, which is why the Dinar value fell in value to well under 3000x vs Kuwait. The Dinar isn't undervalued, just over-inflated due to over-printing absolutely no different to the South Korean Won, Tanzanian Shilling, Burmese Kyat, Lebanese Pound, Mongolian Tughrik, Indonesian Rupiah, Colombian Peso, Nigerian Naira, Vietnamese Dong, Sri Lankan Rupee, CFA Franc, Iranian Rial, Ugandan Shilling, Zimbabwe Dollar, Kazakhstani Tenge, Cambodian Riel, Armenian Dram, Laotian Kip, Belarusian Ruble, Malagasy Ariary, Malawian Kwacha, Rwandan Franc, Paraguayan Guarani, Yemeni Rial, Congolese Franc, Guinean Franc, Burundian Franc, Sierra Leonean Leone, Uzbekistani Som, Somali Shilling, Comoran Franc, Sao Tomean Dobra, 1920's Germany, etc.

      The biggest "red flag / alarm bell" should be the absurd pumping of the Vietnamese Dong by the same delusional pumpers. Vietnam has printed THREE AND A HALF QUADRILLION DONG, ie, +3,519,375,000,000,000. It experienced year on year sustained inflation of over +700% and its value collapsed as a result of that. Iraq is absolutely no different.

      Or the other morons who claim "If Iraq's economy grows a little but, its currency will shoot up!". All they do is confuse "economy" with "currency". They aren't the same thing at all. It's possible to have a weak currency and strong economy (China, Japan & South Korea), and it's possible to have a strong currency and weak economy (Greece, Portugal, Fiji, Bulgaria, etc). South Korea's economy is +5.5x bigger than Iraq's and their currency is virtually the same value. Why? Because currency isn't a "stock" based on GDP, it's value is based on the amount of currency issued divided by central bank reserves to back it with. South Korea have a strong economy but the Won is worth only 1052:1 because they too have printed over 2 QUADRILLION units of currency.

      All these "RV" morons are doing is running round picking the world's 10 least valued currencies with at 3 zeros after them, then trying to pretend "inflation never really took place, it's all some big conspiracy". Pick up your passport, travel to one of these countries yourself, ask the locals about why the currency fell or about the food prices that doubled each week, and you'll get 1,000% more truth about devalued currencies than you ever will on any childish "Go RV! forum.

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    3. Now this is better! Kudos to you DB for having the courage to come back here to engage in meaningful discussion. If some seem a bit testy it's because of how you introduced yourself in your first posts but to your credit you did apologize so let's let bygones be bygones. I am one of those who has asked you a couple of questions about how you think Iraq is going to be able to pull off this "RV" and answering HOW you think they will do it is far more important than WHY you think it will happen so please try and let's take it from there. I am not in any way trying to be a smart arse by asking and I honestly hope you don't take it that way, now consider this,

      Iraq has approximately $75 billion Dollars worth of reserves to back approximately 80 trillion Dinar, remember in the event of a "RV" Iraq would be liable for ALL Dinar in existence not only physical cash but debts and accounts also. Everything figured in Dinar would have to be converted at the same rates as the physical cash, bank checking and savings accounts, investments, etc so their total liability would be with the 80 trillion Dinar figure (you guys that are more savvy about this than me please correct me if I'm wrong) so can you explain how $75 billion Dollars in reserves is supposed to cover $80 TRILLION in liabilities if they "RVed" to $1? How about that same $75 billion just having to be spread over "only" 30 TRILLION Dinar? These are not wise arse questions but are something you really need to look at and if you have no explanation then you need to ask yourself why you don't, it's really quite simple the Iraqi Dinar is worth so little because it's spread so thin from over printing. Now a simple question, why would you think I am wrong? Please explain that and let's take it from there, no insults or sarcasm meant just a friendly back and forth debate, ok?

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    4. The more money you print, the more each existing unit gets diluted. An "RV" is nothing more than an external peg adjustment. It's just the fixed-rate equivalent of appreciation. An "RV" doesn't take any money out of circulation (only redenominations do that), it merely sets a new buy/sell price for how much Iraq is willing to "sell" Dinar for. If any country suddenly demanded every other country now pay 1,000-3,000x more to trade with them than they did yesterday (the "RV" in a nutshell), they would turn their currency into a junk currency overnight as it would universally be rejected for trade. It wouldn't be a "priceless windfall" it would become globally worthless. All that would happen is a black market rate would spring up that would correct the over-peg to keep export prices sane, and/or it would increase Dollarisation even more.

      This is exactly what's happened with North Korea. For years they set a joke peg at 2.16 Won to the $, and the only result is no-one touched the NK Won because they were essentially demanding people pay 100x more than what it was worth because N Korea doesn't have the reserves to back it (just like Iraq has only $80bn reserves to back 84,000bn Dinar, ie, only enough for 1000:1 rate, no matter what you or anyone else "wants" or "demands"). Even the Chinese wouldn't touch it. They were forced to remove their peg, and the currency fell in value to reality. Even then they've still over-valued it internally (currency controls) - during North Korea's last redenomination, the official exchange rate for 150,000 Won was around $740 but the black market (real) value of 150,000 Won was estimated to be only $30.

      That's basically what people are cheerleading they call for Iraq to "dictate" silly 1,000x over-pegged rates then start forcibly confiscating 99.9% of private Iraqi wealth in real terms (non LOP "RV") to try and "make the figure work" - it's basically Communism!

      Likewise, Iraq (and everyone else) cannot just "demand" whatever they like, because the resulting value still has to ensure export prices of Iraqi goods are actually sane... What do you think the "flip-side" of an RV is for future global trade with Iraq? If the Dinar moved 1,000x, then that means it becomes 1,000x MORE EXPENSIVE to buy Dinar in every future transaction with Iraq (now costs $1,000 to buy 1,000 IQD instead of $1). Who's going to trade with Iraq for non-redenominated (non-lopped) prices of goods like that, when the price of trading with Turkey or Jordan hasn't suddenly shot up 1,000x? It doesn't matter what the pumper morons say about "you can dictate the value of a fiat currency to anything", you can't because moving the currency's value also moves how cheap / expensive it becomes to trade with same country for foreign currencies, and prices still have to remain sane or you'll just destroy your own export economy as no-one's going to buy Dinar for 1,000x more to import products from Iraq for no reason. Why do you think all major exporting nations *want* weak currencies? Why do you think China *under-pegs* the Yuan vs the $? Because if China "RV'd" their currency higher, China becomes more relatively expensive to import from.

      A redenomination / lop on ther hand, reduces Iraq's money supply from 84tn to 84bn. 3 zeros get deleted, prices get lopped 3 zeros) and Iraq's FX rate raises from 1164:1 to 1.164:1. And it doesn't screw up international trade in the process. Which is exactly what Iraq have been saying they'll do all along.

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  71. Freakin homerun again Brian. Nice post. Lol.....what did you think of that dinarbeliever?

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    1. Home run for sure, Now get this, it just got posted in it's entirety over at DV! Don't know how long it will last before damage control kicks in!

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    2. I actually don't hang round RV forums that much and have never spoken to Dinarbeliever before he posted in this thread. Personally, despite an unhelpful start ("w*nkers") I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given his earlier comment ("If those m2 figures are correct then it's certain the dinar will lop") as he obviously understands the absurdity of trying to pretend someone else's chronic inflation is an "undiscovered 300,000% profit gold mine" that pumper's keep shovelling. In fact I think he does understand it, he just wants to not believe it, which is often witnessed amongst those just awakening. Often they'll go on like that "sitting on the fence" for a few months until they see the pattern of a few more iterations of pumper BS & fake dates & rates, fabricated "intel" and make-believe secret agent friends, all with a perfect infallible 100% track record of failure at getting anything right, and it becomes a bit more clear to them the only people who've made money off the Dinar are those selling it at +20% market value, not those buying & holding it and hanging onto Internet cult of personalities.

      My general attitude is if they're deliberate morons, they'll get hammered (like Enorrste / Steve did here a few months back), but if they ask sensible questions / genuinely want to understand something, I will take the time to try and explain it better (see two above posts) without dishing out any personal abuse. Thanks.

      Delete
    3. It probably won't be up long dwm009. Someone posted the thread with Enorrste getting hammered. It was censored pretty quickly at Dinarvets out of sheer embarrassment...

      Delete
  72. DB, Since you said your reason for believing in this "RV" was because of, well a bank story, let's look at another angle here for why one should question the possibility of this before-now-unheard-of-event, just a few questions to ponder.

    Why would a dealer sell Dinar at around 20% to 25% above market value if they thought there was any chance it would "soon" be worth 1000 to 3000 times that much? Maybe they already have enough Dinar to equal all the money they want? THINK about that, if they do why do they go to the bother of dealing in this stuff? what would YOU do?

    Why would Iraq pay out billions or even trillions of Dollars (if they even could) to speculators in order to achieve a higher exchange rate as opposed to doing what they say they are going to do by RDing and not pay anyone anything? What would YOU do?

    If the Dinar actually is likely to increase in value by any notable amount then why is there any still available? If it were true that the wealthy and even Governments were heavily "investing" then why is the street rate so low in Iraq? Why do Dinar dealers around the world have literally billions of Dinar for sale for so cheap? What would YOU do if you had billions of Dinar and really thought it was going to increase by 1000 to 3000 percent?


    Why would Iraq issue TRILLIONS of Dinar at a little over 1100 to the Dollar if they intend to buy it back for 1000 to 3000 times that amount?

    Could it be that Iraq is actually telling the truth about both the amount in circulation and what they intend to do about it (LOP)? Could it be that the banks are telling the truth when they tell people this is a scam? Could it be that every respected source that is warning people this is a scam have it right?

    Or could it be that the people who remain hidden behind a silly internet nickname (people who would tell you ANYTHING to get you to buy more Dinar) and who stand to make handfuls of money by perpetuating this scam or the starry eyed dreamers on Dinar forums are the ones who really have it right? Which seems the most logical?

    In seriousness I would like to see your answers to any of the questions, just one would be a start.

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  73. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/money-supply-m2. I am going to make a point here China's m2 has grown over the past two years but their currency exchange rate has increased - I heard the rumembi revalued a couple of years ago and is set to increase further. From what I gathered China's m2 does not dictate the value of their currency- thought please

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    1. China has been on a crawling peg exchange regime since 2005. Read here. When I interviewed John Jagerson he told me that they were in an ongoing revaluation. So far they've bumped the value up about 35%. From what I gather this is due to international pressure because the perception was that they weren't playing fair and had gained an unfair advantage in the global market with an undervalued currency.

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    3. Dinarbeliever, while that is true also look at the Foreign Exchange Reserves China has which is $3.36 trillion (USD) where Iraq's Foreign Exchange Reserves is only $85 billion (USD) yet the difference between currency units between China (107 trillion yuan) and Iraq (85 trillion) is 22 trillion difference. As you can see China's currency reserve is about 39 times greater than Iraq's so I don't see Iraq doing ANYTHING aside from a re-denominating their currency.


      https://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/ir/IRProcessWeb/data/hkg/eng/curhkg.htm#I

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    4. "Money and quasi money comprise the sum of currency outside banks, demand deposits other than those of the central government, and the time, savings, and foreign currency deposits of resident sectors other than the central government. This definition is frequently called M2; it corresponds to lines 34 and 35 in the International Monetary Fund's (IMF) International Financial Statistics (IFS). Total reserves comprise holdings of monetary gold, special drawing rights, reserves of IMF members held by the IMF, and holdings of foreign exchange under the control of monetary authorities."Go to World Bank website for further information on Iraq's "REAL" financial state unlike the rv forums report."


      http://search.worldbank.org/data?qterm=iraq+foreign+exchange+reserves&language=&format=

      Click on the link "Money and quasi money (M2) to total reserves ratio" and it will bring up a chart where you will see the ratio of 0.9. THAT'S IT!!!!

      I think you'll really begin to see the light as you start digging in yourself and comparing with other economies.

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    5. That's because China's currency has been massively under-valued all along, and they've been accumulating a mass of Forex reserves over the years. China has trillions of $ & gold in reserves to back trillions of $ worth of Yuan. Iraq has tens of billions ($75-80bn) to back tens of trillions (84,000) of Dinar (hence the sub 1000 rate). China needs more money anyway due to the obvious population difference and need for greater liquidity. You can't "only" print a few units (like Kuwait's 30bn KWD for just 2.7m people) for a country with a wildly abnormal 1.5bn population or there'd be a permanent internal currency shortage / liquidity crisis.

      Iraq has printed 84tn Dinar for 30m people. That figure itself = almost 2.8m Dinar printed per Iraqi. When the country has been flooded with enough money that everyone in the country is a "multi-millionaire" in the local currency yet the average wage is still only $4,000, well, that's the classical definition of "chronic inflation". See Zimbabwe as another example of "a nation of trillionaires living below the poverty line".

      There's also the gaping difference in GDP - both USA's & China's economies & money supplies are under $17tn. The delusional "RV" however, requires Iraq to 'support' a ridiculous $84,000bn to $275,000bn money supply on just $75-80bn CBI reserves and a $200bn economy. Spot the odd one out? Iraq is nothing like China. And the "RV" figures are not even in the same dimension as planet Earth. Literally, if every single person on the planet - person, business & govt alike - donated every single banknote & digital money, all their bank accounts, grocery money, life savings, pensions, etc, in every single currency in every single country COMBINED all to Iraq (a country with the same size economy as Portugal or Algeria), on not one Earth, not 2 Earth's but 3 planet Earth's (resulting in the complete bankruptcy of every country except Iraq), there STILL wouldn't be enough for a "$3.5 RV" . That's how utterly delusional the whole "RV" is.

      I know what you're doing - looking round for "yes, but what about x" style of 'there must be something that can justify the RV'. But there isn't. It's a made up fantasy that simply doesn't exist outside of "pumper-land".

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    6. Just to clarify, the whole GLOBAL ECONOMY is about $80tn. And people are laughably talking about Iraq's $212bn economy (0.27% share of the global economy) somehow being "worth" $275,000bn simply by demanding everyone else pay 1,000-3,500x more for Dinar in every future transaction with Iraq. See the obvious silly problem there? It's not a subjective "difference of opinion", it is a literal objective mathematical impossibility.

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  74. DB, go here https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html and check out the economics secant for various countries (use the drop down menu in the upper right to select a different country, then click on economy). All the figures are in Dollars. So look for Narrow money, Broad Money, and Foreign reserves. You will see that most small countries cover at least all of Narrow money (M1) and a lot cover Broad Money (M2). China is a bit of a special case as they are the 2nd largest economy in the world (perhaps soon to be #1) so with such a large and board economy you would expect their currency to float, but they control it pretty tightly. You will see that they cover about 75% of M1 with reserves (3.3T in reserves and 4.3T in M1, again all expressed in dollars). For Iraq, the 36th largest economy, and based entirely on one industry (oil/gas) they have much less freedom to play with their currency and are backing M2. Even if they only do what China is doing and back 75% of M1, that still only would allow about a 35% increase in the IQD exchange rate, and they are not going to do even that. So 100,000% (to $1/1 IQD) is impossible.

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  75. Thanks guys for the comments I appreciate your views and can see why you are calling the IQD a scam. Personally I bought my dinars - I see it as dead money so I will still take the chance. Bitcoins although very different to fiat currency did have an rv of 100000% does anyone here have any knowledge of crypto currencies. I am going to invest in those.

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  76. I think that a lot of the people ie the gurus have very questionable histories - that's not good. One thing I have learnt from you guys is not to trust the gurus. I do have hope that I will make money off the dinar however a long shot that is. If I don't make money and it lops ah well at least I had a dream. Crypto - currencies another dream lol

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Hope is all it is my friend. I understand that hope is very important. There is nothing more discouraging than a hopeless life. But the dinar is false hope. I might suggest there are many more rewarding things in life that could give you real hope. Education. Charity. Perseverance. The dinar is not a "long shot". It's a no shot.

      Delete
    2. Hi Dinarbeliever, yes a lot of RV scammers have been caught out involved with other schemes. "Dinardaddy" has been wrapped up in non-working bogus LLC tax evasion scams. "Phoenix" was involved in CMKX pumping. Several others in penny stock "pump & dump" fraud. Others still in MLM pyramid schemes. Others are just "viral marketeers" profiting off manufactured hype to sell ridiculous "premium services" like Dinar Alert (as if the Central Bank of Iraq is going to sneak round changing all banknotes, ATM's, money counting machines, bank accounts, retail cash tills, audit & accounting processes, ISX values, bond values, etc, all overnight - in secret without telling Iraqi's in advance - and 'Billybob' of Arkansas will be the first to "break" the news from a -9hr timezone). In reality the whole "Dinar Alert" thing is nothing more than a Javascript that watches xe.com. That's what people have been suckered into paying for. Yeah, they're scammers to the core.

      Take a look at "Breitling's Blog" (and many other Dinar pumpers) and you'll see the same thing at the bottom of every page : "This website is for entertainment purposes only".

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  77. One more question will the dinar become internationally tradeable? I was told by Barclays Bank that this is what they are expecting. If the currency lops will they be able to make the IQD internationally tradeable

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    1. "Tradeable"? What does that even mean? Making the dinar "tradeable" is just another bogus notion by the scammers. The dinar is already internationally "tradeable" based on how many suckers around the world have bought it. You traded your dollars or pounds for dinar didn't you? There are likely trillions of dinar outside Iraq that someone traded their local currency for. It is not hard for anyone around the world to acquire dinar. It's a meaningless term that shouldn't even pass the smell test for you. If one of the scammers is suggesting that trade with Iraq will soon be conducted in dinar, they are wrong. Iraq's only export is oil. It is priced in dollars and traded in dollars everywhere in the world (with minor exceptions). It doesn't matter if the oil is produced in Russia, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada or Iraq. Outside of Iraq, there is absolutely no reason for any nation (or individual) to own dinar. But quite frankly, if another country (inexplicably) wanted to trade oil for dinar, they could. And it still wouldn't make a lick of difference to the dinar if they did. Don't fall for this ridiculous notion that the dinar is going to be "tradeable". It's just one of the ridiculous lies the pumpers use to hype the dinar.

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    2. Currencies become internationally tradeable by demand, not by decree. In order for the dinar to be internationally traded there has to be an international demand. That will take years. Decades in fact. If ever. Right now all they really have is oil and that's traded for USD. The Turkish lira is traded on Forex and they lopped six zeros off in 2005, so there's no reason Iraq can't be traded after they lop three off of the dinar. The real issue is demand. First create the demand and then they can trade it.

      Delete
  78. What do you and other dinar believers mean when you say "internationally tradeable", and what do you think that will do for the value of dinar?
    If you think it's not "internationally tradeable" at this point, do you know why it might be labled that way?

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  79. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. As Sam said, you can walk into any bank in the UK, USA, etc, and you'll typically see only about 70 currencies out of 190 countries listed for Forex transactions. No Iranian or Yemeni Rial's, no Somali Shillings, no Syrian or Sudanese pounds, no Libyan Dinar, etc. Most of these countries sell oil too. Nothing is really holding back Iraq + any bank from buying / selling Dinar. Right now though, people tend to not want to take vacations in 3rd world war-torn countries where thousands of people are still being indiscriminately blown up each year, kidnappings are rife, etc. And trade with Iraq (outside of buying oil for $) is very low. Half of the worlds "internationally tradable currencies" currencies aren't even listed.

      Take a look at TravelEX UK. They don't even list some European or South American ones (Ukraine, Belarus, Sri Lanka, Venezuela, etc, or the Afghan Afghani (who also lopped 3-zeros off their currency in 2003 from 4300:1 to 4.3:1)):-
      http://www.travelex.co.uk/uk/personal/rateslist.aspx

      And specialist travel money outlets like that often trade more FX than high-street bank branches do. Even major banks like Wells Fargo in the USA (a favorite target for conspiracy pumpers) only trade about 70-80 of the world 190 currencies. Iraq is not "the odd man out" by a very long shot.

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  80. Wow! Look at this gem from Dinarbeliever he just posted on DV:

    I think we can safely assume M2 numbers bear no relation what so ever on a countries exchange rate

    I better say it again a countries M2 has no bearing on the same countries exchange rate

    The lopsters main argument for why Iraq won't revalue has now been debunked. To fib I may have lost the battle but I have not lost the war


    Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/167382-economic-representative-announces-deferral-of-removal-of-zeros-to-the-next-parliamentary-session/page-4#ixzz2n8q3HJYz

    You need serious help DB.

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    1. Yeah well he's an arsehole no doubt trying to play cat & mouse between here and DV. Let him go keep blowing Adam & fans. He deserves no attention here as he deserves to lose all his money. Idiot knows very well people here are watching his very moves at DV. He's the psycho patient not care giver. I smelled that rat when he first came here talking trash.

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    2. "I think we can safely assume M2 numbers bear no relation what so ever on a countries exchange rate"

      If Dinarbeliever really did post that, then that's a pretty silly thing to say after what's been explained above, and I have to question his "innocent fact-finding" as blatant trolling. A bit like "oil shortages have 'no relation what so ever' as to the price of oil". Do you really think printing more money makes a currency's value go UP?

      Another stupid DV claim : "Venezuela has a massive m2 and a decent exchange rate currently 0.16 bolivar to the $"

      DB, Venezuela LOPPED back in 2003 from 4300:1 to 4.3:1. You couldn't have picked a worse example for your "RV". Since then they've set up fake Communist style over-pegs (like you're cheering for Iraq) which are being undermined by the market:-

      "On January 2010, the government of Venezuela created a two-tiered official exchange rate system. Imports designated as "non-essential" receive a rate of 4.3 bolivares per dollar, and "essential" goods are exchanged at a rate of 2.6. There is also a third and unofficial exchange rate in the black market valued at around 6.8 bolivares per dollar (March 2010)."
      http://www.xe.com/currency/vef-venezuelan-bolivar#additionalinfo

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  81. DB: Any currency in which there is trading interest is traded on the Forex. There is no international commerce in IQD (and is not likely to be) so no one cares to trade in it.

    On Bitcoins, it has not "RV'd by 100,000%", it has risen by 1000x or more but by pure market forces, in fact in my view pure bubble economics. I think that the speculative volume in BC far exceeds the actual commerce. You have to be somewhat careful of how you mange your stash (e.g. the recent theft of 96,000 coins from Sheep Marketplace, the successor to SilkRoad, so the victims it seem silkily were/are criminals), and a recent paper has shown how a group of nasty miners can take over the system. There is also some questions about exchanges, if it really takes several weeks to buy presently, than no one is selling? So is the price real or not? At least one exchange operator has claimed to have engaged in price manipulation for their own buy/sell advantage. Still do I wish I had bought a few grand worth when it was 25 cents? Of course. Do I think it will go 1000x its present spot? No. 10x? Maybe, 1/10x maybe that too. 0? Yep even that is possible. The bigger it gets and the more commerce is done the less volatility there should be. Where will the exchange rate be when it gets there, if it gets there? No idea.

    Bitcoins at least is a speculative investment. You might win big or lose big or anything in between. Unless you are in the black now with your IQD (accounting for past and future spreads if you sold now), then you will only lose with your IQD.

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  82. No Dinarbeliever. Our main argument on why Iraq wont devalue hasnt been debunked. My main argument on why Iraq wont revalue is because THERE IS NO SUCH F#&KING THING AS A REVALUE!!!!!!!!! Will you please show us one over 30% overnight anytime in history and when you cannot then please explain how one would not create market shocks that would do nothing but quickly inflate the currency right back to the value it was "revalued" from or worse.

    Dinarbeliever I thought you had hope but its pretty clear that dinar fever has fried whatever little bit of brain that you had left. Either that or you are nothing more than a paid hype creator probably from the European division.

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  83. By the way Dinarbeliever........you have to look at the reserves that are backing the M2 that you say doesnt matter. You cannot look at a countries exchange rate that has 15 times more reserves than Iraq and say......Oh.....yeah.....their exchange rate is higher than Iraqs and their M2 is similar so Iraq can "revalue". Some of these countries have reserves in the trillions.

    What you have just done is a classic dinar pumper move. You create the illusion that what you are saying is true and then post it on a site that will censor anyone who says otherwise. Really in the dinar world all you really need to do is create the illusion and the sheep will gather back into the flock.

    Its funny how giddy you are since you think you found a pattern but the only pattern that seems to be prevalent is of you being an idiot.

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  84. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  85. I've been lenient up until now because I didn't want to discourage debate, but I have to draw the line here. Read the rules at the bottom, please. Let's move on.

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  86. Well I guess DB has shown his true colors but the joke is on him, does he actually think he can go crawling back over to that fantasy site to crow about "winning the war" and re-establish his creditability? I thought the guy was being sincere, guess I fell for that one, but one thing's for sure his buddies in the DV crowd saw him too and while they may pretend to support him they too can (and have!) now see him for the wind-bag he so obviously is!

    He also posted this little gem,

    "I might compile a chart or a couple of charts showing how M1 and M2 numbers have no correlation on a countries exchange rate"

    Wow and to think yesterday he didn't even know the definitions of M0, M1, M2!

    Damn, he sure learns fast doesn't he?


    He is doing exactly what Steve/Ennorste did, that is come here and get shown up for the totally clueless pumper he is and then go running back to the safety of where he came from to brag (lie!) about how he "Won"! These guys are real class acts that's for sure!

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  87. DB, you have seriously confused yourself and it's causing you to make ridiculous, embarassing statements. Call up the economics department at your local universtiy and tell them that M2 has no correlation to a currencies value. Do you understand what you're even saying? You're saying that the quantity of something has no bearing on it's value. Supply and demand. The most basic tenet of value, the most basic principle of economics, and you're saying it's wrong.

    Your enormous errors in logic are based on two things:
    1. You're constantly getting Millions and Billions mixed up.
    2. You're completely ignoring the economic power (i.e. GDP) of the countries you're looking at.

    With regard to #1:
    "For fib Venezuela has a massive m2 and a decent exchange rate currently 0.16 bolivar to the $"
    Venezuela has an M2 of 1,028 billion. 1 trillion. It is over 80 times smaller than Iraqs. They also have a GDP that is almost double Iraqs. 80x2 = 160. I would expect their currency, based on that, to be worth about 160 times as much as Iraqs. 0.16/0.00086 = 186x. Quite close to 160. You think that's a coincidence?

    "Czech Republic current M2 3195472.50 billion exchange rate is currently 0.050 koruna to 1 usd"
    Nope. The number you typed, 3,195,473 billion (3,195 trillion, or 3.195 quadrillion) is just flat out wrong. It's 3,195,473 MILLION, not billion. 3.2 trillion. This is 26 times less than Iraqs.

    "Canada has an m2 of 1225287.00 billion and an exchange rate 0.94 Canadian dollars to USD"

    You screwed up the numbers. Again. Canada's M2 is not 1,225,287 billion (1,225 trillion). It's 1,225,287 million, or 1.2 trillion. 70 times less than Iraq. They also have a GDP 1.8 trillion, about 9 times that of Iraqs.

    "I can post more m2 numbers and exchange rates if people need further proof"

    More numbers where you screw up millions vs. billions and completely ignore the size of the economies in question? Knock yourself out, all you're doing is proving yourself wrong.

    You know that list posted by Markinsa on DV, that you thanked him so profusely for? Why don't you actually look at it. See where Iraq is, 61st, with 72 billion dollars worth of currency? Where would they be with 84 trillion dinar worth 3 dollars each, as you claim is going to happen? China is at the top with 15 trillion. 84 trillion worth 3 dollars each would give Iraq 252 trillion. 17 times as much currency despite having an economy 41 times smaller. That's what your "size of M2 doesn't matter" theory results in.

    If you're interested in actually doing some real research why don't you take Markinsa's list and then compute the ratio of their money supply value (in USD) to their GDP (also in USD). You'll see that they're all pretty close to the same, and Iraq is right where they should be.

    Based on what we've seen so far you will either:
    1. Not do it, because why waste your time doing that when you could spend some more time on DV trying to convince each other you're going to be millionaires any day now.
    2. Do it but screw up the math so badly (intentionally?) that it comes out the way you want it (i.e. wrong).

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    1. BUT he's a MATHEMATICIAN doncha know, he even told us so!!!!!

      Delete
    2. Reminds me of when Enorrste claimed to be a "professional Forex trader", yet it turned out not only did he not know what a "pip" was, he got all his maths wrong on that by a factor of 1,000x too... Seems to almost be a new requirement for pumpers to make a complete fool of themselves confusing a "million" with a "billion" repeatedly on multiple forums (so they can't claim it was just a "one off typo").

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  88. DB's posts on DV subsequent to his posts here clearly show he is not interested in learning or fact finding. He is of course correct that there is no correlation between a countries M2 and its exchange rate, as its the RATIO of M2 to foreign reserves that limits the rate for a pegged currency, not just one or the other. Anyone who actually had some minimal background in mathematics would see that instantly. Who DB really is and what their purpose was in coming here is not clear, but being truthful and/or finding out some truth about the IQD was obviously not part of the plan.

    It was the right thing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but now that their game is exposed I do not intend to spend any more time on replying to DB.

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  89. Coming here and attempting whatever it was that he tried to do did accomplish a lot IMO but I don't think it was at all what he intended. Coming here with that attitude with only a laughable bank story for defense was just plain,,,well let's say less than brilliant, but it did lead to some of his admirers seeing his true colors and of this I have no doubt! Even if they didn't come here, and I am willing to bet that many did, the excellent posts (and I do mean EXCELLENT!) by Brian, gt5, etc were posted on DV and they are still up (at least as of a few minutes ago) and deleting them now would do little or nothing to put the Genie back in the bottle. The guy has lost his creditability and is frantically attempting to repair the damage over at DV but his admirers that were so anxiously awaiting his "massive reply" strangely seem to be AWOL from his latest posts.

    Way to go there DB!!!!!

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  90. Ah, hell DB, since I'm such a sweet guy (and I figured you'd bungle it, no offense), I just went ahead and did it myself.

    First image is a list of 45 countries and their M2 (from your Markinsa's table) and their GDP (from the IMF) and the ratio between the two. Iraq is on here twice, the one at the bottom is the way it really is, the one at the top is with your 3 dollar rate.

    Second image is the graph of that ratio. As you can see it varies between around 0.5 and around 3. Obviously there is going to be some variation in that number. A higher ratio means the country has a larger money supply for its GDP size. Countries that have diverse economies, stable governments, etc, can get away with that, examples being Japan, Australia, Germany, the US, etc. Countries with one sided economies, unstable governments, lots of violence, a history of hyperinflation, etc, are going to have lower ratios, such as Iran, Colombia, Iraq, etc.

    The third image is the exact same graph, except I added Iraq with your hypothetical 3 dollar rate. See any problems here?

    http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy312/RumorX/Capture4.jpg

    http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy312/RumorX/Capture2.jpg

    http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy312/RumorX/Capture3.jpg

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    1. Superb post GT5Junkie. This info needs "stickying" somewhere.

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  91. Just a little squeaker I saw Kuwait had a bigger M2 than Iraq.

    Quote above from DB, who apparently has totally gone off the deep end and is now saying he will give links to established economics sites to support his bizarre theories on currency valuation. Can't wait DB, to see the economics professional that states Iraq can print 84 trillion dinar without shooting the value straight down the toilet.

    Kuwait has an M2 of 32 billion Kuwaiti Dinar, as verified
    here http://www.tradingeconomics.com/kuwait/money-supply-m2
    and here http://www.cbk.gov.kw/cbkweb/servlet/cbkmain?Action=mtbl&archive=201310&tbl=RM02

    Tell me DB, is 32 billion more or less than 84 trillion?

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  92. Dinarbeliever has absolutely lost his mind. The entertainment just doesnt end with this guy.

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    1. "Dinarbeliever has absolutely lost his mind"

      CERTIFIABLE!!!!!!

      Have you seen the guy's latest posts over at DV? Wow, he has totally gone off the deep end! He's so far out in left field now that I noticed even the damage control specialists over there are staying clear of this one.

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  93. DB just posted this in reply to what happened to him here and I thought I would warn you guys, sure hope it doesn't scare anyone too badly, LOL!

    "its not over yet give me a few days - I will act in a slow manner but hope to blow their lids "

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  94. Lol......think out lids are already blown by his sheer stupidity.

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  95. To Sam and all you fine people here I apologize for losing my cool in the last post concerning Dinarbeliever's idiotic action. I Predominantly lost my head because I knew for a fact that after all the great information you guys took the time to share his only motivation was to come here and bust peoples balls because clearly he has no intention of learning and sharing the truth. He simply wants to waste everyone's time. I smelled his game from the beginning and knew exactly what he was up to so in my opinion he does not deserve another bit on valid information. I still hold to that he is an idiot but hey that won't change his actions.

    To DB I wish you happy wet dreaming because that's all you'll get out of this IQD speculation.

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    1. Apology accepted, vinny. The great information that was shared wasn't lost on dinarbeleiver. Thousands of others no doubt will read and benefit from it. Just bear in mind that some people don't have the mental capacity to grasp the role that numbers play in an investment and won't be able to understand what is shared here. Others don't have the maturity to engage in civil discussion. I'd like to think that my readers have the ability to do both. It's no disgrace to be misguided. Most of us had questions at one point and were looking for answers. I want everybody in that condition to feel free to participate here.

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    2. Agreed Sam. Thank you respectfully for providing this open platform of honest discussion. Guess I was too honest (LOL) with DB but I promise to not let that occur again. The information is much appreciated by those of us still learning and encouraged by staying away from the IQD nightmare those still deeply emotionally married to the idea of sudden wealth fantasy. ;-)

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  96. This is one totally lose screw. Lol love being the spectatator. It's very entertaining and educational. :)

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