Tuesday, December 24, 2013

Ghosts of RV Past

In the famous Dickens novella "A Christmas Carol" Ebenezer Scrooge encountered the ghost of Christmas past as he was confronted with his evil deeds.  Well I thought this Christmas might be a good time to take a look at an old conference call featuring convicted dinar fraud Rudolph Coenen. 

In this interview from three years ago Rudy says that he trades the mark.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1-ryajHTxE (16-19 minutes in)  Problem is the mark was replaced by the euro as the official currency of Germany 15 years ago.  How did we miss that?  The guy sounded so convincing.  It seems that we were fixated on his apparent expertise and didn't bother to factcheck what he was saying.  Lesson learned.  When you hear a guru sharing their vast knowledge of all things financial with you in a conference call, blogtalk broadcast, video presentation, or YouTube video just remember that this guy Rudolph Coenen was indicted and convicted for defrauding dinar investors.  Among the lies he told were:
  1. He served and was wounded in Desert Storm
  2. He served as VP of foreign currencies at J. P. Morgan Chase
  3. The currency reform plan of the CBI is a revaluation
  4. He was establishing a hedge fund for dinar investors for post-RV investments

I have to admit that I was fooled for awhile.  Not everybody was taken in by Rudy, however.  One of my readers who goes by DaveD called him a fraud long before the authorities took action.  In this thread he posted by the name of Stew and called the douchebag on his BS. 

While we're at it, we might as well go back and listen to some calls conducted by the alleged co-conspirators Brad Huebner and Charlie Emmenecker, who are once again awaiting trial on similar charges.


$23.8 million in dinar sales would equal over 10,000 people if the average purchase was 2 million dinar.  That's a lot of people to defraud, don't you agree?  No doubt many of them bought after listening to Rudy on their calls.  (They've removed the Rudy calls from their archives for obvious reasons.) 

Once again we see the need to stick with verifiable facts rather than following gurus.  It's your money, folks.  Be careful with it.

Merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year to one and all (except for the scammers).



  1. Sam....a Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year. Thanks for all the hard work!

  2. I'm sure my ex fiancé is spending Christmas alone today. Over the course of his progressing dinar addiction he had alienated all of his family, lost me, and now isolates himself from the real world. Talk about Christmas ghosts.

    1. Kudos to you for saying "ex" fiancé. I have a friend who is doing the same thing. I wish someone could blow this whole dinar fallacy out of the water once and for all. This has consumed him 24/7! He is always on his computer listening for the "calls" and barely leaves the house in case of an important message! Is there any help out there????

    2. " This has consumed him 24/7! He is always on his computer listening for the "calls" and barely leaves the house in case of an important message!"

      That sounds exactly like my cousin Lou's behavior! It's hard to understand how an otherwise rational person could act this way but apparently it happens a lot, I could half-way understand someone acting this way that"s new to this wacko mess but Lou has been in it for over three years and hasn't learned a damn thing from all the failed "intel".

    3. Well in 5 days they will once again be disappointed that the January 1st back wall date will come and go with no delivery of ANY RV.

  3. Sam Merry Christmas. Keep up a good work.

  4. Nothing would make me merrier than to see this "RV dream" cancer totally obliterated in 2014. Best wishes and success to all!!

  5. Sam, hope you had a great Merry Christmas and have a Happy 2014! Keep up the great work!

  6. Is it me or is Iraq NOT in the top 19 economies by 2028?? So to all of the GURUS / PUMPERS out there stop fabricating stories about Iraq going to be #1 economy which justifies a $30, $8, $3, or even $1. LOL!!


    1. Vinny, it truly boggles the mind as to how the deluded think they can "shout" Iraq's economy 200x bigger than it really is... Iraq exports around 2.6m barrels of oil per day. At $95-$105 average oil prices x 365 days = annual oil revenue of around $90bn-$100bn. Investment in Iraqi tourism is now pretty much dead (for obvious reasons), Iraq still imports more food than they export, etc. Even given both Iraq's and the IMF's overly-optimistic estimates (which they failed to meet even for 2013) of Iraq's economy by 2018 (4.7m exported barrels) and extrapolating that growth upwards another 10 years (assuming zero corruption or violence) ends up with an economy far smaller than the top 20 countries. It's amazing how even simple maths goes straight out the window where blind greed is involved. From your link:-
      18th. Spain (1,377bn)
      19th. Saudi Arabia (1,303bn)
      20th. Poland (1,155bn)

      Even oil rich Saudi Arabia selling +8.5m barrels of oil per day (twice as much today as Iraq's best estimate for 2018) is barely on par with a medium-sized, mid-level Euro country like Spain or Poland. Some people act like the internal combustion engine was only invented yesterday & that Iraq is the only country on Earth with oil, or that oil is $50,000 per barrel (if it were everyone's economy would collapse, food prices sent soaring 100-fold, and the entire planet who didn't live within daily walking distance of a farm would starve...) You have to wonder what hallucinogenic drugs people are taking if they think an increase from $100bn oil revenue today to a predicted $175bn by 2018, etc, results in a GDP of +$35,000bn by 2028 for no reason whatsoever...

    2. Brian, I agree. When I saw that article I had a grin ear to ear because these guys are even seeing what the IMF or UN are not seeing, not to mention Hillary Clinton, when they tout such an explosive growth. So I had to share it with a few folk I know that are HEAVILY invested and have brought in many other people to this scam. Still no response from them. ;-)

      But I know what the dinar dreamers will do with this article. They'll take a currency like the Indian Rupee and compare it's $0.01 rate and try to use that to spin the IQD and state that if even the dinar were to RV to one penny it can be up there with Indian. I just know someone will.

    3. Even more illusory than the misinformation about Iraq's economy growing impossibly large, is the fallacy that a growing economy will lead to a hugely rising exchange rate. There are factors that leads to booming single resource economies needing to raise their exchange rate a little, but even that is a small effect, like maybe 10% over years, not 100,000% overnight.

  7. Some more may be seeing the picture clearer after repetitious garbage promises. Here is a comment posted by a Dinar Recaps reader yesterday. I sure hope more continue to ask themselves the same questions.

    12/26/2013 3:44pm

    I am sure we all want to know what Okie and Tony have to say. After all it was them that told us soon, any minute, any second for over a year. was there ever a rv ? Was there really elite that got paid? Was there 800 number? Or was this just a dream we were all having? and for us poor people that need the money,If it is never going to happen should we just sell the paper back to who we bought it from?

  8. By ScottiG on dinar recaps. If it weren't so pathetic it would be humorous.

    The trillion in bonds (not the same bonds referred to in the article that came out a few days ago.) were indeed sold and placed with those who will be placing them on the public market.

    I was advised that they were sold to these entities for $3.71 p/dinar value. I do not know at which rate they will hit the market.

    They could go at any time but again I am advised that due to the incredible interest in the market for them, they are waiting until the Markets will open up (probably in the east) so we could see it Sunday evening.

    Re-affirmed with this information, was the statement that the Qui cards will be accepted internationally on the 1st of January. I was also informed that on 1 January the tariffs will be valued at $3.44 p/dinar.

  9. ScottiG might as well tell the community you people are idiots for even reading my trash bait. Basically now he is throwing extra confusion with two rates and the new 2014 RV storyline on the RV will be tied to the tariffs. Unfortunately the lazy, uninformed, gullible sheeple will perpetuate this lie further. Tony and Okie will run with it also. Mental health needs to be seriously addressed in America. Infact tony, okie and others all fit the criminally insane criteria.

  10. What in the world is it going to take for the delusional to snap out of it??!! I mean REALLY!! Every couple of days I take look at their blog sites. It is exactly the same rhetoric as for several years. The insanity! Would any of you care to explain how you can believe in this STILL???!!!

    1. "Would any of you care to explain how you can believe in this STILL???!!!"

      I have asked this question many times and the replies are always the same,

      "we are closer than ever",

      "They are almost there because they are completing_______ (fill in the blank with the latest Guru milestone),

      and my favorite,

      "With all the good news coming out of Iraq lately",

      Say WHAT???? GOOD news coming out of Iraq????

      The pumpers tell these people what they want to hear and that's all it takes, with the New Year approaching and the pumpers knowing that deadline will also pass without an "RV" they are already covering their arses with the line,

      "The next quarter looks like a very promising window of opportunity"

      Some of the delusional will never give up as long the pumpers keep generating false hopes no matter how absurd these hopes may seem, apparently greed is a much stronger emotion than rational thinking for some people.

  11. "What in the world is it going to take for the delusional to snap out of it??!!"

    Well that's a heck of a question!! Here's why... 5yrs+ of Okie and Tony BS, convicted scammers, dinar holders being repeatedly scammed in Reno, dinar dealer law suits, ridiculous $3-$30 rates, major milestone of chapter 7 met, tariff law implementation constantly moving like the wind, Maliki still in office, the same ole broken rather massacred record of excuses, pumper calls like IQD Team and The Gatekeepers reading the same old news with new dates, redenomination keeps getting pushed back, increasing money supply, lack of Iraq meeting oil quota, degradation of national security within the borders with terrorist attacks, govt can't get it together, etc..

    Yeah I ask the same the question all the time.

  12. I was bored yesterday watching football last night and so I figured I would venture into Okie's chat room and see what I could stir up. below is the chat room conversation with all of the extraneous stuff deleted out.

    Welcome to OKIE OIL MAN and Friends - PLEASE CHECK FOR OKIE or WINGMEN before TYPING
    You have entered OKIE & FRIENDS.
    [usmcsgta] I'm new and looking for more info. I was looking around on CBI's website and I found that they have 84Trillion dinar in circulation. How do they afford a RV of $4?
    [kitchencat ] usmcsgta above my paygrade
    [usmcsgta] kitchencat someone here should know. This has been going on for what 10 years?
    [Cindieloohoo] usmcsgta There are no gurus in here right now. Just good Christian folks fellowshipping right now
    [usmcsgta] Cindieloohoo so no one can answer this question?
    [.~dc] usmcsgta OIL WILL PAY FOR IT ALL
    [.~dinarmama7] usmcsgta There are plenty of answers to that in the forum. It is current, please feel free to avail yourself of the plethora of information there.
    [kitchencat ] usmcsgta bonds oil.minerals is my guess
    usmcsgta] .~dinarmama7 sorry I looked. I didn't see any answers. Iraq has to borrow money yearly to make their budget overages. I just don't see how they can pull this off. Sorry to sound like a downer, guess I just lost faith in this ever happening
    [.~dinarmama7] usmcsgta I would suggest reading Q & A's from Bulldog75 and OKIE. They have only answered it about 100 times each.
    [usmcsgta] I haven't spent much time online. I kinda fell away. I had hoped that this would have happened already and I came back to see what was new. I guess I am at the wrong place to find help???
    [.~dinarmama7] usmcsgta Big boy and big girls endeavor. Time to pull up the big boy and/or big girl panties and do research.
    [usmcsgta] But when I ask an intelligent question I get yelled at?
    [LuvDinar] ..sambo May I try to answer usmcsgta's question?
    [LuvDinar] usmcsgta Am I understanding your correctly, in that you are thinking that Iraq cannot cover the cost of the RV?
    [usmcsgta] I was at CBI's website and found that they have 84Trillion dinar in circulation. at $4/dinar that is a money supply worth 320 trillion dollars. The US money supply is only 12 trillion USD. Where will Iraq get the money to pay us?
    [LuvDinar] usmcsgta As I understand the situation, it doesn't matter a hill of beans how much reserve or money Iraq has in order to "cover" the RV. All of our dinar will go to either China or UST. They in-turn will "store it" (if you will) as oil credits (much like investing in futures). They will trickle out as we purchase oil over many many years and over that very long period, Iraq WILL have the money to cover that cost. Does that answer what you are confused on?

    1. part 2
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta There's no "real" money changing hands. It's all on paper. Numbers in your bank account that you buy, trade, and use.
      [usmcsgta] well that covers the dinar held by us foreign currency holders. BUT they still have 84trillion in their money supply. If the RV to an in country rate of over $3, their money supply will be 3 times that of the entire world. That just doesn't make sense.
      [bev238] LuvDinar Don
      They will trickle out as we purchase oil over many many years and over that very long period, Iraq WILL have the money to cover that cost. Does that answer what you are confused on?
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta There's no "real" money changing hands. It's all on paper. Numbers in your bank account that you buy, trade, and use.
      [usmcsgta] well that covers the dinar held by us foreign currency holders. BUT they still have 84trillion in their money supply. If the RV to an in country rate of over $3, their money supply will be 3 times that of the entire world. That just doesn't make sense.
      [.~dinarmama7] ..sambo To say nothing of the gold, natural gas and agriculture that will be developed there.
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta ... and that may be so! They are the land of milk and honey. I think it's going to cost a boat-load to rebuild Bablylon. Yes, what Sambo is talking about is pretty cool! Iraq doesn't "currenly" have the means to refine their oil, so they ship it here and WE refine it for them -- there is a cost for them to access our refineries, then we export the refined oil.
      [usmcsgta] ..sambo Then why can't they meet their budget right now? They have had to borrow money from the IMF to make their budget shortfall the last few years. If they have all of this money, why are they short on their budget? When I add everything up it still comes up short.
      [..sambo] usmcsgta UNKNOWN -
      [.gypsymama] usmcsgta Because right now there money has a very low value, that is why they need to RV.
      [hoot2602] Here is another way to state what I think usmcsgta is saying via an example: I have 1 million dinar. It revalues to $3.44/dinar. Then I have dinar worth $3,440,000. Who comes up with that money to pay me? To further emphasize the issue, there are 5,000,000 in the USA who own dinar. Lets say that each one owns 1 million dinar. Is there enough wealth in the world to pay all those people the value of the their collective dinar?
      [usmcsgta] 180 million dollars per day will require 1,770,000 days to pay off the money supply. That is almost 5,000 years. Did I do the math wrong
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta I don't think any numbers right now are accurate. I think everything is being manipulated in order to keep the markets stable and where they are. I think a WHOLE LOT of information will be revealed post RV. IMHO I'm not an economist. Just learning here too. I think your question is well thought out. Even if they have RV'd "in country" I don't believe they can RV their reserves until they go international, so you could be looking at pre-RV numbers of a very undervalued currency.
      [hoot2602] We are not going to receive oil credits. Someone is going to pay us all that money and even if its digital that value has to come from somewhere and even if the Chinese elders, Iraq and the USA tried, they could not come up with that value.
      [usmcsgta] LuvDinar well we were just told that they have a daily profit of 180 million USD. 1.7 million times 180 million = 306 trillion. 1.7 million days is almost 5,000 years
      [kitchencat ] usmcsgta I don't think they or us plan on immediately redeeming all
      [LuvDinar] kitchencat That is very correct.

    2. part 3
      [usmcsgta] kitchencat I don't intend on waiting 4,000 years to cash out, do you?

      [hoot2602] When you stop and think about the supposed rate of thirty+ dollars that makes this even crazier. There is only one way a rate of $30 would work and that is to lop the three zeroes off of the notes.
      [kitchencat ] Our treasury and central banks.......we exchange immediately and goes into govetnment reserve to be used
      [usmcsgta] hoot2602 I wonder how many people have done the math on this deal?
      [hoot2602] Not too many from what I've seen.
      [usmcsgta] kitchencat Isn't oil purchased in USD all over the world? What good is dinar going to do for the UST?
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta Gibbs did an amazing explanation on this a couple of months ago. I believe that it is in the forum. Because your logic is very good; however I don't believe that it will work the way you have extrapolated it, because it is based upon futures rather than immediate pay out of cash as compensation from Iraq.
      [Cindieloohoo] LuvDinar Could either be under Gibbs or in the Post CE info section
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta The dinar as oil credit will be converted to USD credit. It will last us beyond my great-great grandchildren, which is exactly why this deal is so brilliant.
      [usmcsgta] LuvDinar but at the end of the day, the money supply is a liability of any central bank or government. If there is currency out there the central bank must be prepared to cover it if it is a pegged currency like Iraq's currency is.
      [hoot2602] LuvDinar the key here is "immediate payout of cash" We, the holders of dinar would be receiving and immediate payout when we exchange. That's the problem...there isn't enough cash to pay all of us such large amounts.
      [kitchencat ] usmcsgta lotsa back room banker deals
      [.gypsymama] hoot2602 We are not going to get cash. It is all digital money in a bank account
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta We have lived with an enormous deficit in the USA for YEARS. The difference between the USA and Iraq is that we never had the assets to back our debt - THEY DO! Problem: It's all underground, hence the reason that you have to look at this as purchasing "futures" in comodities. They could be in the Trillions of debt all day long, because of those futures that will back their "debt" (for lack of a better word).
      [usmcsgta] LuvDinar so, we give the UST our 1 million dinar, they give us $3million. The UST then converts the 1 million dinar into USD credits. what good does that do? The department of Treasury doesn't buy oil. We import very little oil in fact.
      [usmcsgta] .gypsymama I have digital money in my bank account that I can convert into cash at any time. The M-2 Money supply includes bank notes and deposits in bank accounts. Digital or paper it is all still there.
      [kitchencat ] We buy it and sell for profit
      [LuvDinar] hoot2602 But the majority of dinarians, will never actually hold any of that money in their hand. It's digits in a bank account. It's Real Property. It's precious metals. we will ALL be buying assets immediately that will immediately off-set the USD's that you are thinking would be sitting in a bank. You guys are thinking old school banking... i think...
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta I have thought that exact thought many times. Me thinks (inside where we always doubt what the govt tells us is so) that there is much trading to be done that may not have anything to do with oil credits. Does that sound plausible?
      [usmcsgta] LuvDinar If I buy the ranch that I have been looking at I will give them a wire transfer for 1.2 million usd. They will use part of that money to pay off their mortgage, and the rest to do what ever. Who cares who spends the money. the money will still be added to the economy.

    3. part 4
      [hoot2602] .gypsymama I understand its digital. But, the value of the digital money has to come from somewhere. We understand how the money supply grows but there has to be an exchange of equal amounts. If you say the dinar is worth $3.44 then when I give you my 1 million dinar, where did you get the $3,440,000 to pay me? You had to sell a lot of oil...there isn't that much oil to be sold at one time to pay all of us.
      [LuvDinar] usmcsgta Yes!
      [usmcsgta] LuvDinar not really. The oil industry isn't a government entity her e in the US. It is over in Iraq. The US Govt cannot purchase and sell at a profit any oil
      [jagpro] hoot2602 its fiat money no real value
      [r2d2] hoot2602 If thhat's what you think or "know' then why are you invested
      [.gypsymama] usmcsgta Even the USD is not valued at &1.00
      [.~dinarmama7] ..sambo Thank you
      [gwallace] Good evening usmcsgta Why not sell for profit? It seems simple enough to me.
      [usmcsgta] .gypsymama I understand that the USD isn't valued at $1.00. but the dinar is going to be valued at $3.44 of the current value of the USD. It just doesn't add up.
      [..sambo] usmcsgta FINAL WARNING - CEASE OR YOU WILL BE OUT
      [hoot2602] r2d2 I expect a reasonable value.
      [r2d2] New asset backed currencies
      [r2d2] Worldwide
      [usmcsgta] ..sambo so I can't participate in the room?

      It was at this point that I was basically told to shut or I would get booted from the room. So I took the conversation private with one of the mods.

      Private message below.
      I missed the mod's first comment, but it was basically 'go do your own research instead of asking questions in the chat room.'

      [usmcsgta] and if i do the research and it comes up with answers that are too hard to swallow, can I come back?
      [usmcsgta] i'm not trying to cause problems. I am looking for answers
      [usmcsgta] I've been invested for almost 2 years. I have hung on every word that Okie and others have said. I can't say that I am heartened because so much of what has been said has either not come to pass, or has been proven false. The math just doesn't add up.
      [usmcsgta] I figured I could come here and ask questions and get some answers from others who have been doing research also. I definitely feel like that is frowned upon.
      [..sambo] IF I KNEW I WOULD TELL YOU -
      [usmcsgta] I will go and do my research and then I will come back and PM you. Would that be ok?

      So now I am working on putting together a lot that I have learned here and dropping it in sambo's lap. we shall see what he does with it then.

    4. For the record, Steveasite did this on his own. I had nothing to do with it. ;-)

    5. LOL. What a great exchange. No wonder the guy nearly got banned for "causing trouble" (ie, debunking the RV with simple maths in public...) The way all the others were struggling to come up even basic excuses is pretty telling. "Oil". ROFL.

      The "oil credits" thing is pure delusion. To start with, the USA only imports around 226,000 barrels per day from Iraq (as of Q4 2013). Figures for every country of origin's oil imports can be found here:-

      226k barrels per day x 365 days x $100 oil price = all of $8.25bn per year. That's all the USA pays Iraq for oil each year. Compare that to other annual imports of $30bn for rubber, $25bn for footwear, $11.2bn for fruit & nuts, or $8.4bn for tea & coffee. LOL. For a stupid "$3.5 rate" with 84,000 Dinar in circulation, that would take 35,636 years for Iraq to acquire enough $ purely through "oil credits" to the USA...

      It's simply astonishing the number of people who after all these years, still cannot figure out two basic facts about Iraqi oil vs USA trade:-

      1. Only 3% of oil imported into the USA comes from Iraq (226k out of 7,361k barrels per day). Compare that to 2,508k from Canada, 824k from Mexico, 721k from Venezuela and 358k from Columbia...

      2. Only 8-10% of Iraqi oil gets exported to the USA (226k out of 2.5-2.7m barrels per day)...

      PS: Steveasite, you should PM "usmcsgta" and send him over here.

    6. Sorry maybe I misread, was "usmcsgta" you steveasite? If so, then nice one, haha. And how can any site seriously have a mod that TYPES EVERYTHING IN ALL CAPS. It's almost like a form of self-parody. Anyway, Happy New Year all.

    7. Yes one and the same. Still new to the world of blogging and I managed to screw up the wordpress sign up. I wanted USMC Sgt A as my handle here, but wordpress wasn't having any part of it. I got LiveJournal to give me the handle I wanted, but this site won't recognize the OpenID credentials. Until then I will remain with the wordpress handle of steveasite.

  13. Steve great job!! The seeds of reality need to be planted just as the false hope has been. Give the dinar believers both sides of the coin and then it's up to them to flip the coin for a decision.

    I am inclined to believe that the rejected conversation between usmctga and others by sambo would be sufficient to draw interest to the authorities as it is clear there is an agenda by the okie site to continuously perpetuate the fraud of the Iraqi dinar fraud investment. If sambo is always open to learning then why the threat to remove usmcgta from the forum? Wasn't usmcgta specific that he was looking for logical answers rather than the repeated false info propagated by okie and his folk? As you can see sambo caught himself in the end and said he's open to learning. Yeah but not the truth and if he does he certainly won't publicly share in the forums. I sure hope this opens a can of worms both internal and externally to okie forum.

  14. HI, I came across your site last night. Somewhat glad, somewhat sad as I had always feared this dinar RV was "too good to be true". My husband was given some dinar by and friend and later admitted to buying some himself, less than $100 thank God. Let me preface this by, my husband is a very intelligent man in ways, he has his master's but also very caught up in the great unknowns. Gullible if you will. He believes in aliens and ghosts. I don't believe in either tho I do believe in angels and demons but not poor aunt mable who didn't quite make it to the other side as is now roaming the halls pissed off and slamming doors. That being said I looked into the dinar thing and was quite skeptical, then got bit by the what if bug and finally I'm like oh you can't be serious! Elite getting paid out, 800#, constantly manned and armed call centers and banks in the middle of the night, "bad guys" getting arrested which holds up entire countries monetary systems, I could go on but it seems you know. Ok, so here's where I'm not sure and need your help, I sent him a link to your site and he said he read it and said everyone had opinions, ok this is true but I pointed out how yours were far more logical. I'm rambling sorry, ok so I needed to know, how are people getting scammed, he got his from a currency exchange so we can just take it right back if need be, right? also, is it something we can hold onto for years and years and maybe it will slowly appreciate over time or am I understanding you that they will most likely throw out the 3 zero notes and start over? if so, what happens to people holding the 3 zero notes. thank you so much for your help. it breaks my heart to see him so hopeful for this and the dong rv but I've slowly been shedding light as I can, pointing out the humor of it. I home and say do you have your suit picked out for when Tony calls so we can go to the bank but if there is no hope of making a dime, I want him to know. That's why I'm so curious why others believe it so? Also, how are they profiting from it from other people? I know they haven't revived a penny from us thank God. Again, thanks for the help and information.

    1. The scam is in the ripoff spreads between the buy/sell price of Dinar of those exchanges. Example : Dinar Trade are selling 1m Dinar ($859 worth) for $1,020. "Buyback" is often as low as $760 (for $859 worth). So you can end up spending $1,020 and getting back $760, overall you'll lose about $260 per 1m Dinar. You can certainly sell your Dinar back but overall, most people will end up losing around 25% of your money.

      The good news is that you've only bought $100. The bad news as you've probably figured out yourself is not so much the cash value lost, but rather the unhealthy emotional addiction verging on Obsessive Compulsive Disorder that many develop, often spending hours each day hunched over a computer waiting for something that's completely make-believe, getting angrier and angrier over time, closing themselves off to reality, alienating friends & family and following increasingly deluded paranoid conspiracy theories to try and 'explain' "why it hasn't happened this time..." Some of them end up hooked almost like a drug addiction.

      When Iraq eventually redenominates, they'll set a time period for the changeover (last changeover period was 3 months (Oct 15th 2003 to Jan 15th 2004)) after which all current notes will be demonetized (no longer legal tender). So you can't really hold onto them forever.

      All you can do is do what you've been doing - point out the obvious absurdity. You can start with the ridiculous Vietnamese Dong. The reason the Dong is so weak (21085:1 vs the $) is because Vietnam has been printing so much money no different to Zimbabwe or 1920's Germany. They have in fact printed over 3.5 QUADRILLION Dong! The whole global economy is only $80tn.

      So you could explain why Vietnam - a country with a $160bn economy - is not going to end up with a money supply of 3,500,000bn money supply - that's 21,875 Vietnam sized economies worth of money or a crazy 43x planet Earth's worth of money...

      In reality, Vietnam is a country who had inflation rates of over +700% per year. Its currency may be weak but it isn't undervalued by any measure. Iraq is exactly the same with an 8-yr inflation (1987 to 1995) of 315% per year responsible for the dilution in value of the Dinar.

    2. Oh dear Lord it makes SO MUCH SENSE, when you spell it out like that! Thank you, I will explain this to him I'm a way which he can understand. I think what you said was key as for us it's not about the money spent but the time and emotion that's wasted!! I shall give him another 60 days to see for himself at which point I will take the dong and dinar back to the exchange store and take him out for a nice dinner and good laugh :) thank you guys, I needed some back up :)

    3. The other ways these gurus are making money off of us is two fold. One through increased web traffic to their site. Sam has posted a website that values websites based on traffic. I don't remember the name of the website off the top of my head. If the website has a large amount of traffic, they are able to sell the ad space for more money. Second, if they do conference calls they can make a fair amount of money there. Back a few years there was a deal made with the large urban phone carriers and smaller rural carriers that the urban carriers would pay the rural carriers for the calls they carry. This was to offset the cost of wiring and bringing dial tone to the sparsely populated parts of the country. So what is happening now is these conference calls are always based in rural parts of the country and the "free conference call company" has worked out a deal with the phone company that the phone company will share with the conference call company some of the revenues that they receive. It isn't a stretch then to think that some of these guys will have set up there own conference call company or struck a deal with one of the existing conference call companies to get some sort of a kickback based on how long and how many participants are on the call. This helps explain why they they have conference calls every day that last an hour or more. At this point, nothing that these guys do surprise me anymore. Short of coming out and actually telling the truth. That would truly surprise me.

    4. Your instincts are correct. It is a scam. Unfortunately, convincing dinarians they have been scammed is an incredibly difficult task. Don't ask me why. If I were a psychologist, I think it would be a fascinating case study. There is an appeal or attachment to the idea of a massive RV that is almost religious. Logic, common sense and simple math can't seem to penetrate the force field the champagne wishes and caviar dreams. Greed is an incredibly powerful emotion. It is unnatural and unhealthy. I haven't had much luck breaking the code. Good luck. Please let us know if you were successful.

    5. UPDATE: Sat my precious hubby down and explained it to him with the basic math principal and the oil points. He said " really?" I said yes babe it's simply not possible because there's not enough oil and money in the world to pay for this great rv. We went back and forth a little bit, I showed him some numbers and he laughed and said damn it what a bum, I still have to go to work lol. He's a great sport, I know he hates the company he works for so I promised I would support any endeavor to get him out of there but sadly we weren't going to wake up multi millionaires in the next few days. He asked if he could keep it a few more days and I said sure, keep it a few more months, give it time for that dream to die and then we'll focus on a new one. in the mean time, NO MORE CONFERENCE CALLS lol
      Man. that hurt :/ but it had to be done, it was taking too much of his time and hopes. I feel like the grinch who stole Christmas.

    6. Perhaps your hubby can pay it forward at his favorite dinar forum(s). ;-)

    7. He's not the type to " chat" but I did tell him to try to explain it to his buddy he got the dinar from or better yet, send him the link to this site ;) I at first didn't see the harm in it, but now I can see the emotional turmoil it can cause. He said he wouldn't be surprised if some of the gurus were hunted down eventually.

    8. Confusedmomma, you did the right thing. Don't feel bad about upsetting people by speaking the truth. As you said, it was starting to take over his life in terms of time wasted, which for many is a far bigger problem than monetary loss of a few bucks. It's good to see you can both laugh about it. Sadly there have been one or two people who've posted here who've had relationships break up over this absurdity... A lot of people do seem to cling to this out of desperation - they have a job they don't like and / or bills they struggle to pay. Hope everything works out for you both in future!

    9. Glad to hear it. Sounds like your husband didn't achieve full citizenship in the land of dinaria. That's encouraging.

    10. I really appreciate you guys breaking it down for me. The put so much "information" on the dinar sites that I was at a loss how to combat it all. we certainly have enough money to live comfortably, just not millions and even if we have to down size to have my hubby start his own business then so be it, it was a fun what if while it lasted but eventually logic must take over. Maybe I'll start playing the lottery, it would appear my chances are better than the musical unicorn of the GREAT RV :) Happy New Year's gentlemen and may this year bring you riches of the real kind.

    11. got another question, I'm hoping you guys can answer, from my understanding at some point the dinar must rise or change for them to have some weight with the world bank's right? if so, and I'm just making my own numbers up, if it's like 80 cents on the dollar, which would still be a win fall for dinarians, how does the country go about re-evaluating their money to be more in line with the US dollar or can they go on indefinitely with fractions of a cent? I know excuse rates fluctuate daily even hourly, but what must be done in countries to substantially raise their exchange rates? Again I look to you guys for answers because you have a way of breaking it down in a simple format for me :)

    12. As far as the rest of the world is concerned Iraq's exchange rate is just fine. S. Korea's currency is valued at about the same as Iraq's and they have plenty of foreign investment and are internationally traded. The problem for Iraq is the stigma of depending on the USD in country. They have stated that they want to de-dollarize and the only way to do that is to redenominate by replacing the IQD with a new currency valued at $.86. Despite what any of the gurus and scammers tell you that is a neutral exchange and nobody gets rich from it.

    13. so even if it's .86 & you exchange your dinar, you don't receive the added value? how do they rv, they just say so? Seems a lot must happen first and it would slowly rise over a long time? this crap is so confusing to me, I worked with blood and guts not dollars and cents lol

    14. There is no "RV" confusedmomma. Iraq are planning to redenominate / delete 3 zeros. What will happen is that a new set of banknotes with a whole new currency code will be set up with an exchange rate of 1:1000 new:old. So for each 1x 25,000 Dinar note @ 1166:1 rate (worth $21.44) you hand in, you'll receive 1x new 25 Dinar note at new 1.166:1 rate (still worth $21.44). The whole process is value neutral, and it's the process of exchanging at 1:1000 that reduces Iraq's money supply from 84tn to 84bn that effectively "raises" the value of the new notes by 1,000x (the face value - not the international value).

      The get-rich-quick "300,000% profit RV" thing however is a total fabrication made up by scammers. It's been done literally dozens of times before and there's nothing unusual or unique about it at all. Here's what Iraq are saying in their own words (outside of "pumper land"). See the gaping difference in reality between those quotes from Iraq and what pumpers are trying to scam people with bogus 'explanations'?

    15. So Confusedmomma I think I understand your question about the added value. Many of the believers will come here and say "you see even the naysayers believe $.86!" Well while that is true the $.86 will not be a rate that applies to the current triple zero notes. What would need to take place simultaneously is they redenominate meaning the new notes will not be 1,000 / 5,000 / 10,000 / 25,000 but will be replaced with 1 / 5 / 10 / 25 respectfully. Now if you calculate the face value of the new notes against $.86 they will be of the same value then if you multiply the triple zero notes with the current rate of .00086.

      For example:

      (Current IQD) 25,000 x $.00086 = $21.50

      (Redenominated new currency) 25 x $.86 = $21.50

      So as you can see the actual monetary value of the currencies do not change simply the face value and the exchange rate. This is why gurus who can't read / comprehend exacerbate the rumors because it's almost like a financial tongue twister but regardless of how you spin it no one becomes a millionaire.

      Now once they dedollarize they may eventually increase the exchange rate 1-2% quarterly if that's even merited or about 6% annually or $.05 but even that is a big maybe. There has to be a lot of the currency removed from circulation before they can even support any RV. So in essence what I just described with my redenomination is not an RV as much as the gurus claim it is. It is simply part of the redenomination process. See people see rate go from .00086 to .86 and it's an RV to them. That would only be true if the money supply was not in the trillions like it is with Iraq but more realistically in the low billion range where their foreign reserve could support it.

      They have 85 trillion dinar in circulation but only $80 billion in foreign reserve. Last I checked trillion was way bigger, by 3 zeros, than billions. See why they could not $3, $1 or even $.10 (cents). Try buying a million dollar house with $100,000. It ain't gonna happen unless it was a steel at an auction.

      Now there may be. Lingering question gurus like to use and that is what happens if an Iraqi has 25,000 dinar after it redenominates and goes to the store won't that note buy them $21,500 worth of goods? The answer is no and that's where the educating the public comes in. Some merchants may take the 25,000 note but it will be treated as a 25 dinar note (new note) and any change due to the customer for the purchase will be returned in new currency. It's pretty simple actually. All they need to do is move the decimal three places to the left. However most will be encourage to bring notes to the bank and they will either get physical notes if they desire or deposit into their bank account and the conversion will take place at that time.

      This is my discovery and understanding from past conversations with currency pros and financial experts I've been privileged to learn from. However, if I am wrong in anything I've stated I'd love to hear or be corrected by anyone that also has a good understanding.

    16. I get it!! :) thanks again! I want to try and somewhat found like I know what I'm talking about even if I'm just quoting you guys :) off to ring in the new year with a little more knowledge THANK YOU!!!

  15. Steve, I suspect your presence in the Okie forum is about to be cut short. I had a very similar experience. Any time I asked a difficult question I was told the answer had already been provided and I would have to research it. The evidence was "everywhere". If I was too stupid to figure it out, other posters weren't going to do the work for me. It was a subtle form of bullying. It was their way of saying only idiots can't figure it out. In truth, they had no answer because THERE WAS NO ANSWER. As we know, a massive, overnight revaluation of the dinar is a mathematical impossibility. Some of them probably did (and still do) believe there was something mystical or magical about the dinar. Even if they didn't understand it, they believed with all their heart it was true. Others have too big an ego or financial interest to admit it's a scam. They are simply too smart to fall for such a lie. Regardless of the category they fall in to, they can't allow people like you to populate the forum. They don't want their financial interests, egos or dreams to be interrupted. If you continue to publicly challenge them with logical questions that ALL dinarians should want to know the question to, I suspect you will be summarily dismissed. Logic has no place in the dreamland of dinaria.

  16. This was the icing on the cake! LMAO!!!

    "[kitchencat ] usmcsgta I don't think they or us plan on immediately redeeming all"
    [usmcsgta] kitchencat I don't intend on waiting 4,000 years to cash out, do you?"


    "[usmcsgta] hoot2602 I wonder how many people have done the math on this deal?
    [hoot2602] Not too many from what I've seen."

    I need to get to my bank tomorrow and tell them I need a few extra digits added to my account since it's just digital and no monetary backing is required. I prefer to think new school if that's the case. ;-)

    "[LuvDinar] hoot2602 But the majority of dinarians, will never actually hold any of that money in their hand. It's digits in a bank account. It's Real Property. It's precious metals. we will ALL be buying assets immediately that will immediately off-set the USD's that you are thinking would be sitting in a bank. You guys are thinking old school banking... i think..."

    1. LOL. My personal favorite were these two:-

      "The department of Treasury doesn't buy oil" and "The oil industry isn't a government entity her e in the US."

      It was funny to see usmcsgta explain that the US oil industry isn't a centrally planned nationalized state-owned entity and that what all the Dinarians were fantasizing about is basically Communism...

  17. Steveasite, I am here to tell you no matter what you do from this point forward on okies site under the usmc handle it will not matter one bit. I guarantee you word has already gotten back to Sambo about your posts here. If you private message him now he will not care, he would not have anyway, he will just say you were causing trouble and probably ban that account after he got the last word. If what you say was your plan, then you would have been better off completing your plan and THEN posting it here. I have known Sambo for a long time through the forums and I can tell you he is NOT interested in learning anything which contradicts his rv dreams. He is a brown nosing kiss ass which wants nothing more than to be a mod and have that little bit of power which he obviously can't get away from the computer screen. He's old and set in his ways and nothing you nor anyone else will change his views on the dinar. As far as going back into that chat room and trying that same approach, if Sambo is there, he will boot you immediately. I promise you.

    1. But what Steve can do is what all of those buffoon gurus do and that is create a new ID and post other related questions. That will truly get their panties in a bunch.

  18. Over at DV there is another one of those incredibly stupid posts titled "What are you going to buy when the RV hits?", these pop up from time to time and show just how delusional some of these people are. While some of the posts are meant in a light hearted way most are examples of what these scam victims dream about and are a vivid picture of what keeps them hanging on. Talk of buying expensive luxury homes outside the USA, buying airplanes, yachts and exotic cars, etc all WHEN "the" RV hits not IF it happens! People hanging onto their hopes and dreams, as they like to call it, would be bad enough if they were holding lottery tickets but with lottery tickets they would at least have a slim chance unlike owning Dinar where about the only slim chance of a good outcome would be to break even! Then there are those idiots who are always trying to make a deal with God by talking about all the "good" they will to do if they can get all that money, LOL!

    1. "trying to make a deal with God.."

      That's right. Like the dumb sayings of "send one up for me" like its some sort of chute used in the bank drive thru, or "stay prayed up" as if it were some exam cram where you have to keep updated. The dinarians have jacked up the English language so bad I'm gonna switch to Swahili.

    2. Outside of a religious forum I doubt religion is mentioned more anywhere on the internet than on Dinar forums! Being a believer myself I find that sort of thing to be especially appalling but I'm not trying to start a religious discussion and my religious beliefs have no bearing on the point I was trying to make, I think most rational people, religious or not, would find praying for riches and trying to promise to use some of it " to do some good" has to be the ultimate stupidity Dinarians resort to! However from all the references to religion coupled with "doing some good with some of it" thrown into these discussions it's quite apparent that "trying to make a deal with God" is a fairly common tactic.

  19. Steve, You were being talked about last night @ Okies:

    Where the money for the RV comes from

    Post LuvDinar Yesterday at 8:32 pm
    Last night in chat a couple of members had very pointed and well thought-out questions as to where all this money will come from to fund the world-wide RV of the dinar. I knew I had information on this, but in the moment of chat, I couldn't access it from my brain - lol. So, it haunted me all night and I finally found my interview that I had copied from Dr. Todd (one of the engineers of the plan).

    For all of those who would like a refresher course on how this all began (before being linked with a GCR), please click on the link (free from virus, as I know it cleared my very strong firewall).



    1. Ah yes, "Dr. Todd" - the fictional 110 year old who claimed the whole "secret Marshall Plan for Iraq" was set up by Queen Elizabeth's father (George VI) in 1958. Which is extremely impressive given that the man died 6 years earlier (Feb 6th 1952)...

      In case anyone here is new, "Dr. Todd" is a fictional character dreamed up by the PTR bunch and even then they ended up getting all their dates wrong. LOL. As Sam mentioned previously, the last genuine author of the Marshall Plan was George Frost Kennan who died in 2005 at age 101:-

      More of "Dr. Todd's" failed pumping here:-

    2. Damn. Saddam was executed but Dr Todd is still alive? I want to live to his ripe old age so I can devise a plan like that because it will certainly take me at least 50yrs to make up some crap like his. ;-)

  20. Self-inflicted illiteracy. So now the faithful over at DV
    claim this 1991 NYT article
    see: http://nytimes.com/1991/03/25/world/after-the-war-no-electricity-but-kuwait-reopens-its-banks.html
    describes an RV of the Kuwaiti Dinar (KWD). Not the infinitely large (0:1 to $0.06:1) gibberish dontlop and company like to claim, but a greater than 3x RV according to LGD:
    "Well for anyone who says Kuwait didn't RV they really need to read your first link. Didn't actually call it an RV but what is it when you go from ,1to 1,to $3.42 to 1 in one day? And that came from the New York Times. "

    Wow, a 3 to 1 boost overnight would indeed be impressive. Of course anyone who actually understand english clearly would see that the sentence they are referencing:

    "All other old dinars can be exchanged for new ones on a one-to-one rate until May 7, when the old dinars become invalid. The new official exchange rate is 3.47 American dollars for one new Kuwaiti dinar."

    is saying the 1:1 part is old KWD for new KWD and the 3.47:1 part is new KWD to USD. i.e. the exchange rate is the same for old and new and nothing changed. But if you mainline enough Koolaid I guess you can make it seem to say whatever you want. It makes me think of the scene in THGTTG where the hair dressers have landed on the new earth, decided to use leaves as currency, and then decide to burn down the planets forests to deal with the oversupply problem.

  21. LOL.... Those mental midgets must be reigning champs at the game Twister because they can't get anything straight.

  22. Do the gurus who do calls get paid for their Intel?

    1. Many do in a number of ways. Web traffic (advertising revenue) is one, "premium alert services" (DinarAlert) or "VIP subscriptions" (DinarVets, etc) is another, a kickback for direct advertising (theiraqidinar.com's advertising of treasury vault, etc) or indirect pumping, and finally conference call income streams. They all claim to not get paid, but many do indeed make money off of it in several ways.


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