Recently a woman named Marisol Luna who claims to be an international economist has been posting on Dinar Recaps and other sites. Among other observations, she said "While Kuwait was invaded by Saddam he took his currencies out and its value plunged from almost $4.00 dollars per Kuwait Dinar to .05 cents as much. Free from Saddam and regaining control and opening again National Bank of Kuwait honoring the currency at original value of $3.64+. About three months later they issue the new Kuwait Dinar and everyone was happy. New millionaires were born with this process."
I've repeatedly debunked this myth of the millionaire-making Kuwaiti RV. You couldn't buy Kuwaiti dinar from any bank at anything less than the official value of $3 + ... EVER!!! And even if you were fortunate (?) enough to be in the Arab world during Desert Storm, in order to buy enough Kuwaiti dinar at 5 cents on the black market to make a million dollars you would have needed to have about $15,000 in cash that you were willing to gamble on the currency of a country under Saddam's control with the Iraqi dinar as the official currency. If you bought at a dime it would require $30,000 cash. At 15 cents $45,000 ..... etc. To date not one person has provided evidence of anybody making millions on the Kuwaiti dinar during Desert Storm. I'm sure some people made a few thousand here and there, but millions? Rubbish!
Of course her pro-RV post was met with unanimous approval and praise at Dinar Recaps since "negative" posts and critical thinking are not allowed. They are allowed here, however. Ms. Luna's lengthy explanation of why Iraq would RV was basically a textbook example of a guru taking perfectly legit IMF documents and twisting everything about necessary reforms to mean they're gonna RV and make us rich! Here's a good example:
Paragraph 8 “Developing a stronger financial sector development will require moving away from the current model in which weak state-owned banks dominate the financial sector and enjoy favorable treatment vis-a-vis private banks. A solid banking system that can support growth and employment will require the full financial and operational restructuring of state-owned banks and creating a level playing field for both private and public banks.
IT MEANS AND I CONCLUDE: IRAQ REQUIRES MORE THAN OIL, GOLD AND MONEY. IT’S OFFICERS AT CBI REQUIRE GOOD FAITH FOR THE COMMERCE, THE INDIVIDUALS AND EVERYONE. REQUIRE MOVING FROM THE MONOPOLISTIC BANK GAMES TO AN OPEN TRUSTWORTHY INTERNATINAL BANK STATUS ONLY TO BE OBTAINED WITH A REVALUATION OF THE CURRENCY TO BENEFIT EVERY LEVEL OF ECONOMY THERE AND OUT OF IRAQ. IT WILL REQUIRE NO MOREEXCUSES FROM CBI AS YOU WILL SEE ON THE LAST EVIDENCE TO BE PRESENTED.
I looked around and didn't find anything on Ms. Luna other than her Facebook and Twitter pages which included no economics credentials. About that time somebody emailed me this link.
I guess the reason I didn't find it is because I wasn't searching in Spanish. If you are fluent in Spanish you won't need a translator, but I'm not so I ran it through Google Translator and the gist of this is that a consumer protection site in Puerto Rico investigated Ms. Luna and wasn't too impressed to say the least. So much for that.
Folks, no legit economist, investment adviser, or currency expert is going to endorse the dinar investment. They'd be the laughing stock of their chosen profession. When you hear somebody claiming to be one of the above and they're touting the incredible potential of the IQD you know right away that something's amiss.
UPDATE!!! Thanks to Brian who provided the link to this chart. I think my readers are the smartest people in the dinar world. In case you don't know, "fils" are divisions of the Kuwaiti dinar into thousandths. What this chart shows basically is that the Kuwaiti dinar's official value from 1986-2008 was $3.25 - $3.70. ($1/.307 - $1/.270)
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Another good post Sam. Anyone who talks about the non-existent "Kuwaiti RV" is a blatant conman (or conwoman), as anyone can see for themselves...
ReplyDelete"Folks, no legit economist, investment adviser, or currency expert is going to endorse the dinar investment. They'd be the laughing stock of their chosen profession."
ReplyDeleteAint that the truth!!!!!!
Any real world economist would laugh at the idea of 1000s of percent increases in a currency value overnight because they know that it could never happen in economics. It was a dead give away that this lady is a fraud when she suggested that Iraq must "revalue" their currency to benefit every level of their economy. HUH? If that were the case then wouldn't every country on earth constantly "revalue" their currency to benefit every level of their economy? RVS ARE NOT REAL!!!!!!! Why is it so difficult for some people to come to terms with that fact?
Thanks Brian for bringing actual facts about the Kuwait situation. Its sad that thousands still believe Kuwait had a massive RV. Thanks to con men like Montana and Not-so-Breitling there is mass confusion on this issue.
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ReplyDeleteThe lie about the Kuwaiti dinar is absurd. But it's also completely irrelevant. Even if these clowns convince their followers that a Kuwaiti RV happened, it still shouldn't pass the smell test. It still doesn't make any sense that an Iraqi dinar RV is going to happen. It didn't drag on for 10 years. It didn't involved conference calls every other night. It didn't spawn a whole industry of "money service providers". It didn't require VIP services or super secret meetings to participate. The only possible similarity between the 2 situations is that both currencies are known as the dinar. Even if people foolishly think the Kuwaiti dinar RV really happened, it's ridiculous that they think it has any significance on the Iraqi dinar. The circumstances and situation are so different, they shouldn't even try to link the two. Unfortunately, common sense and logic is in short supply in the dinar world.
ReplyDeleteHere's another thing dinar drunks overlook.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the Archive page from Kuwait's Central Bank
http://www.cbk.gov.kw/cbkweb/servlet/cbkmain?Action=mtbl&archive=199412&tbl=RM02
Look at the currency issued numbers back in 89-91 around the time of the invasion.
There were only 357 million Kuwaiti dinar at that time. 23 million of those were in banks. So a total of 333 million dinar were in circulation. Think about that again now, only 333 million Kuwaiti dinar. There's probably more Iraqi dinar advertised on E-bay right now. I've heard individual investors claim to have 100 million dinar.
You can add Joey and Vic from the gatekeepers who have bamboozled their listeners with the concept of Iraq / Kuwait sharing ports therefore the IQD must be within pennies of KWD.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Vic or Joey come hear and try to explain those cow chips to us? Vic is always boring his minions with worthless symposiums while he cusses out a family member in the background. At least have some common courtesy and mute the phone dude.
I bet everyone at this site has dinar. It's cheap due to un sanctions that have now been lifted, I got 1,000,000 for $1,000 whooptyding no big deal. If it goes up at all and you didn't have any, that would truly make you a dinar douchebag
ReplyDeleteNice try troll but you're wrong!!! I for one do NOT own dinar so who's the douchebag for assuming so. That being said that little bit of hope / wishes / dreams is probably all you have to keep your waking days worthy so I suggest you purchase several million more since that is the only excitement in life you have. If you're lucky you may break even IF it comes out at 10 cents. Clearly your understanding of the IQD investment is Okie hype based and illogical.
DeleteBtw, why do you visit this site if you're so confident in the investment unless you're a GURU or DINAR DEALING DOUCHEBAG??!!! Certainly you have not grasped any real understanding of the sham you're involved in. Face it you've been duped. Or is all this knowledge above your comprehension?
Enjoy the koolaid until the well goes dry!!!
If you bought at $1000 per million, you are currently 16% in the hole. There will be a spread to cash out of course as well so it likely will have to go to $1160 or so per million just for you to break even, a 34% rise. That isn't even going to happen over the long term let alone overnight.
DeleteThink about the mentality it takes to pay $1000 for something that's worth $860, and call it cheap.
Deletewow vinny, you must be the cats ass, thanks for setting me straight -I hope to someday be as completely full of myself as you are
Deleteand for the rest of you - I can do math, my point was that I don't care either way, but if it does happen, I'm covered and I didn't get hurt
Deletefuelie: you are "covered"? How so? It, as in the RV, can not happen, it isn't a question of probability, its impossible. So the best you can hope for is to only lose a few hundred dollars to the dealers. How is that a good outcome? Better to spend it on something you enjoy, or give it away to someone how needs it, or may other uses.
DeleteRV-addicts who try and make others feel jealous of their "investment" whenever the scam gets debunked with irrefutable facts that show certain pumpers to be a bunch of compulsive liars, are usually more desperately trying to convince themselves / "keep the faith" than anything else. "Shooting the messenger" is a common panicked denial based response amongst those who've lost the argument, and "want to get back at the naysayers" but can't think of anything sensible to say beyond copying & pasting nonsensical failed "reverse psychology" attempts at insults like "Anyone who bashes the RV must all secretly own Dinar". It's the same gibberish today as it was when it was at least an original failed insult back in 2007... A bit like "I bet people who debunk 419 e-mail scams must secretly own Nigerian Naira"? Um, no. It doesn't even make any sense...
DeleteAs for buying $860 worth of Dinar for $1,000, coupled with another typical 10% "cash in" spread, you'll get back roughly $774 for your $860 worth 1m Dinar that you spent $1,000 for, so you've basically just made a 30% loss. "Bargain"... ;-)
In addition to the Kuwait RV sillyness that Marisol Luna spews, she also uses the common guru idea that such an RV will "benefit every level of the economy". This is of course also rubbish. Everyone who made a large sale (relative to their net worth) just before the RV will make a huge gain with their buyer having an equal loss. Everyone who would be vastly wealthier had they just held off from a major purchase will beanery with the government (and some Iraqi's do not express anger verbally shall we say). Everyone who has a contract to get paid in dinars will be demanding payment and everyone who contractually owes dinars will be demanding relief. All prices and wages that can be changed will plunge, which is very bad for the stock market where a serious overshoot is likely. Workers who have managed over their career to even save up a weeks salary will never have to work again as they now have 20 years worth of wages, so who is actually going to be working in Iraq? Will war torn and still dangerous Iraq be able to attract foreign workers? Seems unlikely to me. An RV would tear the country apart.
ReplyDeleteOther rich nations in the region that really do want to benefit their people do not RV their currency with oil money, they just give it to their citizens. e.g Qatar where there is excellent free medical care, free education (including college), subsidized housing, etc. Raising the value of the currency is a terrible way to pass wealth to the people where as just giving them money and/or services works extremely well.
Scam 101: the dependent distraction. Notice that a lot of guru sites are talking about "the NDA"? This is claimed to be a Non-Disclosure Agreement you must sign in order to exchange your dinars for dollars after the RV where you agree to not tell anyone how you got so rich. Wow, I can't fault these folks for not having an imagination. The idea of keeping secret the largest economic/financial event in the history of civilization (where the 36th richest nation in the world gets a money supply more valuable than the rest of the world combined!), is obvious nonsense.
ReplyDeleteSo why make up such rubbish? Because a discussion of whether or not the NDA is real, presumes the RV is real. So the RV lie is reinforced by discussion of anything that is dependent on the RV, even if that thing (like the NDA) is seen by most as being false. The more made up stuff they can get people talking about that depends on the RV (NDAs, presidential orders, Iraqi laws, UN/IMF agreements, etc) the more it reinforces the idea that the RV is real and that its only this outer layer that is bogus (the NDA etc). The scammers have done their homework (unlike the dinar believers).
Exactly!!! You nailed it. In addition, the ever changing "800 number" farce is a big clue as to needing to call to make an appointment. Don't they get it when complete strangers as for your email, address, name and amount of dinar you have? I mean how stupid is that? For those that have never dealt with foreign currency exchanging of physical notes it is quite simple. Go to an international airport or bank and simply hand them the notes and they hand you cash. Why all the broo ha ha with planning the event. With regard to the so called RV, it is widely known on the internet, financial institutions, and even many Gi's that get out of the military that the Iraqi dinar scam is nothing more than that. Yes people have been swindled but the wiser ones catch on quick while those that keep defending it till this day are at a loss because they are the prime targets these gurus who generally are nothing more then evangelical type liars like Loechen and Poppy or Network Marketers. Either way they yearn to scam you out of your money.
DeleteI'd rather take a chance on the lottery than give my money to pumping dealers. Every last one of these dinar dealers are pumpers. Ask anyone of them why they've taken down the US Treasury certificate from their website and see what BS story they give you.
somebody needs a girlfriend a hug or maybe just a nap - I didn't used to really care if it rv'd but now I hope it does just so I can tell vinny to suck it. Why don't you find another choir to preach to ...YOU GENIUS MUST BE SHARED
DeleteFuelle, the more you speak the more obvious it becomes why you have fallen for the sucker investment. Talk about "suck it"!! LOL.
DeleteAs they say you just can't fix stupid. You bought dinar hoping it RV'd but you state, "I didn't used to really care if it rv'd..." Clearly you need the rv so you can get the best psychiatrist around because you seriously need some meds.
Talk about having a girlfriend, why don't you get off of Okie's lap and get a real clue!!
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ReplyDeleteSo fuelie....you wish that a nonexistent impossible economic event would happen so that you can gloat to the people who are truthfully saying that it is a nonexistent impossible economic event? Thats pretty typical of a "RV" dreamer. What do you mean you didnt really care if it "RVed"? Would you mind explaining to us what a "RV" is since you speak of one like it is a real event? Looks like the one who needs a hug is you. Its OK to be duped every now and again. The first step to recovery of dinarism is admitting that you have a problem.
ReplyDeletewhat is impossible about a countries currency reflecting a countries wealth? after it has been artificially devalued. You people don't care about truth. you don't know what is going to happen and neither do I, the difference is that I am willing to admit it.
ReplyDeleteI AM NOT AN RV DREAMER, I'm just covering all bases because I don't know. You flat out say it's impossible and call me duped.
I would love nothing more than to kick okie square in the nuts and your coming in a close second. I was just wondering what this site was about so checked it out today and you guys are dinar douchebags. what's it to you what I do. I'm done with this site so all you judgmental bastards can kiss my hairy ass
The IQD currently reflects the wealth of Iraq. They have $80 billion or so in their foreign currency reserves and 84 trillion dinar in their M2. That comes out to a little under a tenth of a penny. It was not artificially devalued. It depreciated over a twenty year period due to sanctions and overprinting, not to mention that Saddam was spending their reserves.
DeleteI care about truth. That's why I started this blog, to counter the lies. You're right, I don't know what Iraq is going to do. They might redenominate on Jan 1. They might wait another year or two before they get around to it. They might bump the dinar up a few %. They might even lower the rate a few %. But I know what they're not going to do. They're not going to raise the value enough to make anybody rich. They're not going to put themselves trillions of dollars in debt in order to help dinar speculators buy new houses, cars, planes ..... etc. In fact I'll go so far as to say that they will never raise the IQD's value to even $.002 (two tenths of a penny). They'll replace the IQD before they raise the value that much.
I'm sorry if my friends came across a bit abrasive, but we've heard this nonsense for years about the dinar being undervalued and artificial, and how even us loppers all have dinar because we actually believe the RV will happen. As DaveD said it's hard to comprehend how somebody could pay 12% more for a currency than its actual value and consider it a bargain. I hope for your sake you take the time to go through my posts on Forum Facts, Deleting the Zeros, Dirty Float, Currency is Not Stock, and An Interview with John Jagerson. I think dinar speculators owe it to themselves to get the facts and most of these facts are not allowed in other dinar sites. Good luck.
Fuelle, or actually Full-of-it is more appropriate. Certainly you have come across a site that is intellectually, genuine and logically superior to your capacity so it would behoove you to return back to the dinar RV spinning cacoon community you have been indoctrinated at. It must be really difficult to know that you can't break out of the nonsensical trash that has been compacted into your cranium.
DeleteSee, there are many honest people on this who have admitted that they once were where you are now. The difference is they came thru to reality after further investigation and much learning. It takes a humble respectable person to admit when something is wrong and walk away. Most of this work has been done for you already and shared here by these wonderful people beginning with Sam. So if you desire to keep down the dark rv tunnel to nowhere than feel free. Just don't bash those that are trying to save you from insanity down the road although it appears you are there already because deep down inside the rv has not materialized and you are quite angry that the dreams of living large are rapidly dissipating every morning you awake to no RV!!! You have been sold a lie like thousands of others or maybe even millions who knows. Bottom line is everything that you appear know about this investment is all cow chips because not one guru is selling you the truth. Unless that is you are a guru or dinar dealer here trolling like others have but are too cowardly to admit who they are.
Save your soul!!!!
Btw, you are an idiot claiming we bashed you. Well not until you opened your methane filled mouth and called everyone here a dinar douchebag if the RV came along and you for some wild reason believe that you would become a millionaire. Now go right ahead and run off like the buffoon you are with the name calling because it's what typical rv hypnotized folk do when they have no substantial argument as to why the RV is going to make you a wealth tycoon.
Deletefuelie - "after it has been artificially devalued".
DeleteIt hasn't been "artificially devalued" at all. That's just a pumper slogan. You just don't understand what "inflation" is or the obvious correlation between Iraq printing 1,000x more money and the IQD falling in value by 1,000x. Iraq's money supply is 84 TRILLION (84,000bn) Dinar. Kuwait's is only around 30 BILLION. That's why the IQD's rate is worth thousands less than the KWD. There is no "big secret".
fuelie - "You people don't care about truth".
People who hang round RV forums will be the last to learn the truth given the sheer amount of lies being spoon-fed to them daily, and happily lapped up out of confirmation bias. You believe everything you're told about the mythical "RV" purely because you WANT to believe it. See the above fantasy "Kuwaiti RV" as a perfect example of an outright made-up 100% lie being adopted as "truth" due to the BIG LIE technique : repeat a lie often enough in public with confidence & passion and not only will people believe you, you'll end up believing your own propaganda - that's how pumper forums work in a nutshell.
fuelie - "you don't know what is going to happen and neither do I,"
This is classic propaganda called "Appeal to Ignorance". Just because you do not understand how currencies are valued, you think no-one else can either. That's quite arrogant. And you falsely extrapolate "no-one is psychic" to stupid extremes of "anything can happen". To use a previous example : A car just pass my window doing 40mph. I don't "know" whether it will speed up to 50mph, slow to 30mph or stop. I do know for an absolute fact, however, that it will not speed up to 30,000-105,000mph, no matter how much "faith" you have or "let's wait and see" posts you churn out...
fuelie - "I AM NOT AN RV DREAMER. I'm just covering all bases because I don't know."
There is no "base" to cover. There is no "RV". Iraq are redenominating as they've repeatedly stated:-
- "The new 50 Dinar bill will have a value of $43 (50,000 current Dinar)... The Iraqi currency change will not have any effect on the international value of the Iraqi dinar and economy" – Central Bank of Iraq
- "This redenomination had previously been applied in countries such as Turkey, who deleted six zeros from their currency" – Dr. Mohammed Saleh, Central Bank of Iraq
- "The exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000." – Mahma Khalil, Iraqi MP & official spokesperson of the Economic Committee
- "The change that will take place with the Iraqi currency will change the face value of the dinar and not the real value as measured by the value of Iraqi dinar against the dollar and gold". - Sami Atrushi, Iraqi Finance Committee
It's only a few Western pumpers churning out the silly 'get rich quick' "RV" fantasy with fake made-up "quotes" & "intel" by imaginary "secret agent" friends...
fuelie - "You flat out say it's impossible and call me duped."
It is & you are. Iraq's $75-80bn worth of $ reserves is obviously not going to "support" a stupid $84-294tn "RV". It wouldn't even support 0.03-0.1% of Dinar at that rate. Iraq's "wealth" backing the Dinar is $75bn-80bn CBI reserves. What you think is some mythical "hidden windfall" is just normal inflation. The Dinar isn't "falsely devalued", it's 1,000x weaker because it's 1,000x overprinted.
Currency reflect the wealth of the country? Lol. Maybe its best that you run along seeing how you are only embarrassing yourself with your complete lack of hyperinflation comprehension. By the way, Iraq is far from wealthy. They have a laughable 175billion a year GDP and 90 billion in reserves. Weak at best.
ReplyDeletehay folks whats up i just posted this all on a dinar forum in the LOP SECTION and this is the email i got from this guy
ReplyDeleteHere is my comments to him by PM that will explain why I took it down last night but because we are all about the facts I decided to re-post it in his behalf today, the day after our family day called Thanksgiving. These posted by alan_coaks_3 are only the articles that go along with his/her belief in the lop, everyone feel free to post articles in this thread that talk about raising the value of the dinar when introducing smaller categories.
My email to him:
I removed your post last night until I had time to review it, I will put it back under your behalf now.
FYI, we are about the facts and by posting these you are in fact dong so in part but there are many other articles that point to Iraq wanting to increase value at the same time as redenominating and you should have posted those as well. So by you do this it looks like you are only wanting to post half the facts and you have an agenda and that is too cause problems. If I see that you are only here for one reason and are not welling to look at all the facts I will banned you for good next time, we have a zero tolerance policy here for those that just want top cause trouble.
We have posted many articles that point to your belief of the lop and we all know it has a chance of just redenominating but thanks for trying to post such a negative post on thanksgiving because it shows me what kind of a person you are.
Enjoy your time here but by joining two days before your first negative post makes me believe you are here for only one thing but I hope I am wrong.
Stryker
here was my post
If you need to know what deleting of the three zeros means look no more i have it all right here.
http://goo.gl/0cgfpl
http://goo.gl/IotREJ
if you go to each link you will see what all the exchange rate from old to new is 1000 to 1 new looks familiar ? Iraqi Dinar http://goo.gl/d9CeSH
Venezuela - http://goo.gl/bhNxtF
Indonesia - http://goo.gl/RFyUFb
Mexican peso - http://goo.gl/PzwPlf
bulgaria lev - http://goo.gl/MdyD8V
Russian ruble - http://goo.gl/8N1tva
Israel shekels - http://goo.gl/oNsF16
Paraguay guarani - http://goo.gl/AvsKKg
Brazil Real - http://goo.gl/Tsi2ur
Colombia peso - http://goo.gl/X59Q6I
Zambia - http://goo.gl/2SHK52
Afghanistan - http://goo.gl/m8kXn4
these are just some
Mahma Khalil Member of the Iraqi Parliament and official spokesperson of the Economic Committee says an agreement has been reached about the mechanisms of introducing the new banknotes after a series of meetings and discussions with the CBI Governor Dr. Sinan Al Shibibi.
He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000
yes Dr. Sinan Al Shibibi is not the gov of the cbi anymore but Abdul Basit Turki Saeed is
his take on the dinar is to Redenominate aka delete three zeros on the iraqi currency link here http://goo.gl/qjYUCx
Governor of the Central Bank Abdul Basit Turki Saeed said the deletion of zeros is a necessary and useful step to restructure the currency and the economy," noting that "the relevant committees in parliament, called for the need to wait in the project, in order to provide the right conditions and time.
2010 Document - Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction to The United States Congress
Dinar Redenomination
The CBI has announced that it intends to implement a long-planned Redenomination of the Iraqi dinar by eliminating three zeros from the nominal value of banknotes.This process is meant to ease commercial
transactions by reducing errors and confusion that hyper-inflated currencies often cause. Now that Iraq’s inflation rate has achieved a level of stability, the move could serve to bolster confidence in the
country’s currency.
Well Zach, as can be clearly seen, "RV" forums such as "Dinar Detectives" are all about controlled censorship and "shaping" people's beliefs by "framing" it in the "right" context no different to any trashy tabloid or puerile politician. Even in the "LOP" (ie, reality) section, everything is heavily monitored and controlled under the pretense of "keeping things positive". Religious cults do exactly the same to "outsiders bringing criticism". Those forums would actually collapse without the moderators constantly tapping the "delete" key.
DeleteStryker the totalitarian - "If I see that you are only here for one reason and are not welling to look at all the facts I will banned you for good next time, we have a zero tolerance policy here for those that just want top cause trouble."
That's RV forums in a nutshell - either you gush over the resident guru or get banned for "causing trouble" (ie, posting facts). I wouldn't worry about it. The fact he's threatening to ban you for "daring" to quote "dissenter" material like : "The exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000" pretty much says it all. You gave him an official quote from the official Iraqi Economic Committee & Member of Parliament Mahma Khalil saying they'll LOP - that's heresy!
Many others get threatened by the same control freak. Example:-
"Stryker: Web TV broadcast today.
Open discussion?....if you ask a question that goes against his usual BS rants. You will be banned! Lol......its all a joke."
Earlier this year, Sam caught him pumping his little heart out with a MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) pyramid scheme (Ambit Energy who also post fake shill reviews to try and counter the flood of rage from its victims):-
http://dinardouchebags.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/stryker.html
The whole thing Stryker was advertising is a classic MLM pyramid scam. In fact many Dinar moderators are involved either in one scam or another (MLM, CMKX, etc) or have a background in trashy "viral marketing".
If you're hoping for a debate / response by posting comments from Sam's blog on "RV" forums, and then pasting the answers back here, you're probably wasting your time. They all get censored and they'll just ban you as they have done hundreds of others - like the thread over on Dinarvets where someone posted Enorrste / Steve getting completely destroyed here on Sam's blog earlier in the summer which was deleted by a DV mod in under 3 mins out of sheer embarrassment.
The only intelligent debate on the Dinar you will find is on uncontrolled forums where posts don't go missing on a whim by laughable "morality guardians" who are themselves immoral to the core. But the uncensored forums are the same ones that pumpers and their lapdogs rarely visit because the few times some of them (Doc, Kaperoni, Enorrste) tried to take the scam to more serious investment forums they got completely taken apart all aspects and laughed out of the door (and all they could do was cry for censorship and demand everyone else "shut up")...
You simply won't see honest debate on DVets, DDetectives, or DRecaps due to the banana republic censorship alone. And you won't see any two-way "equal merit" style debate on the Dinar on serious forums, because 99.9% of humanity knows full well it's a scam that only works on RV forums that are only held together by censorship & cult of personality worship...
Add Randy Koonce to that batch of buffoons too. Sorry meant DOUCHEBAGS!!
DeleteWe all know how his famous post ends after he shovels shit up your anus... "Breathe relax!!" Yeah cause he's trying to tell you that you're gonna get screwed so don't tense up. Dumb arse!!
@Santorelli... On that poopy#2 dork regarding up and down CBI, that must be his version of dOrKIE years ago when he kept running that line about the pinging of the servers is what they were waiting on to get to 100% before the CBI would reveal the rate and then VOILA the CBI systems went down because most likely all that pinging took down the CBI site. What a FLUCKING idiot!!! Since when do backend banking systems get directly connected to frontend webservers?? If there is I would NOT put my money in that bank. Talk about lacking data security and data integrity... LMFAO!!!
DeleteRegarding BGG,,, you aren't the only one who's had a rumble via email with the DOUCHEBAG because he's presented lies and didn't like being called on it. He threatened to call the authority on me and sue since he had my ip address. Well dipshit doesn't realize the ip address is of the mail relay box or host most likely on his end. Jackass...
Here is another alert from El Paso, Tx. regarding foreign currency scams. This article is as of September 22, 2013.
Deletehttp://tinyurl.com/m2downx
I should probably be sending all these links to Sam in email incase he wants to throw up a new write up of buyer beware.
Here is some of the fantasy that mindless "investors" like easyrider and dinarbeliever thrive on.
ReplyDeletehttp://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166684-0pinions-please-warning-to-dinar-holders/
How can these people even function in normal everyday life? Anyone who believes this stupidity has serious mental issues.
Agree fully on the mental issues! I was taken in, and I'll readily admit that, but it didn't take me long to see this for what it is.
ReplyDeletePsychosis: one's perception being broken or split from reality and truth.
Fits the bill for most the sheep out there.
I know it's off topic from this thread but I just have to share. I could not stop laughing. Did anyone see where Kap now thinks "raising the zeros" and "deleting the zeros" means two different things? I laughed until my sides hurt. It amazes me how people still listen to that idiot. AND praise him like he knows what he is talking about.
ReplyDelete11-26-13 Kaperoni (Article): "Senior Economist: Raising the zeroes corrective action to facilitate the transfer and account currency" This is a great article IMO as it states you cannot do one (delete zeros) without the other (raise zeros). Which is what we want. And this economist is for it and wants it to proceed...itisclear to me she is relating the deletion of zeros to the Law of Indebtedness. And the raising of zeros must occur first which is the appreciation or float of the dinar. These are two separate events. It makes sense that they are denying in some articles now that they cannot delete the zeros..since the have not raised them first.
WTF??!!! I guess it's time for the "You can't fix stupid" award from Forbes to be announced to Craperoni. Typical house plant mentality. Taking up space and air. At least plants give off oxygen. ;-)
DeleteI think its not only unproductive, but in fact incorrect to label dinar believers as stupid or idiots (though I now its tempting and I have done so myself). Its a case (perhaps an extreme case) of confirmation bias, or drinking the Koolaid as its often called. Seeing the world the way you want to see it despite the facts painting a (very) different picture of reality is a pretty fundamental human trait and is responsible for much difficulty in the world though out history. The ability to base actions on models of reality instead of having to re-examine the world each time, is also likely a key aspect of intelligence. So its all about knowing when your model needs to be re-evaluated for accuracy and being willing to do so. Some folks are simply not willing to do it. The more emotion they have staked on the issue (e.g. dreaming of a wealthy future) the more tightly some cling to this false vision of reality. It doesn't mean they are stupid and calling them names just makes it all the more likely their defenses will be raised even higher.
ReplyDeleteI've seen the Koolaid effect many times in high tech startups, and to some extent its actually necessary. The vast majority of business startups fail, so you need a bit of Koolaid to ignore those odds just to get up in the morning. But you can't drink so much of the sweet elixir that you are not willing to honestly evaluate what you are doing relative to the market etc otherwise you don't make good decisions. Its a delicate balance.
This effect can alas be exploited by scammers in cases like the dinar to lure people to the false hope of vast riches for next to nothing. The dream of wealth is a strong one, and has always been so. Many of us here experienced it for a time when we bought into the dinar myth. Its why lotteries, and long shots in horse races, and so on have always been a draw. Those of course at least have a microscopic chance, while the dinar has zero chances of making anyone rich and the vast majority of IQD holders will lose some money.
Getting into the investment because someone you trusted described it as a very good possibility of you losing out on a possible "once in a lifetime opportunity" may be classified as emotionally motivated. However, after listening to the sheer stupidity that gurus state day-to-day, story line after story line which don't fundamentally stand up to the smell test REPEATEDLY displays your stupidity. So yes there are many STUPID people in the investment because they are one track-minded and refuse to weigh both options. If greed is an acceptable variable or motivator then stupidity can drive you right off the cliff to your death.
DeleteIn conclusion, there are MANY STUPID dinar investors while there are other wise ones that assume the responsibility to insure they are not being scammed.
That's my view on it after witnessing for quite some time.
Have you ever changed someone's view on any subject by calling them stupid?
DeleteYes & no. I did change their view but used the words idiot and moron. I guess it goes over easier. LOL
DeleteSeriously though... If they are stubborn enough that they refuse to be open-minded and listen to facts presented when all they have is hope and pipe dreams, then they ARE STUPID!!! There is no other explanation. We aren't talking trading candy corn here rather money. I'm sure when they realize they've been scammed they won't have a problem calling themselves stupid for not heeding good advice.
Perhaps your experience is different than mine as I have never known anyone to seriously reflect on their viewpoint by being called stupid, or a moron or an idiot. Further it is unlikely to be true. To see that the RV is impossible takes only a little understanding of currency and a little arithmetic.. But you do have to ACCEPT it as reality in place of your pipe dream. People can get into the dream without doing sufficient due diligence, but if they stay it is not due to lack of arithmetic ability or an inability to understand a floating vs pegged currency but due to not wanting to understand. I don't think that giving precedence one phrase in one badly translated article that can in some way be twisted to mean an RV, over the mountain of data to the contrary is a matter of intelligence, or a lack of it. Its about belief and the believer knows they are in fact NOT stupid (and they likely are not) so you in fact are wrong, so why should they listen to you? Or at least so it seems to me.
DeleteAgain,,, I'm sure when they realize they've been scammed they won't have a problem calling themselves stupid for not heeding good advice.
DeleteThey don't have to believe me or anyone else with reasoning skills if they are one track minded. However, it has been my experience in dinarland that those same individuals consider the opposing believers against the dinar to be stupid for selling their dinar and giving up on a dream. Those who have owned dinar but were rational enough to see the other point of view are much more intellectual than the pipe dreamers who refuse to reason. So you can say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. At the end of the day it's there loss and heartache not mine.
So here is a case in point. Over at DV one of the long standing Mods, Markinsa, posts
ReplyDeletehttp://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166707-for-those-of-u-that-still-believe-the-kuwait-rv-lie/#ixzz2mAqpyORc
"https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2214rank.html. Those who say there is too much Dinar in circulation should look at this. If the Dinar RV's at 1:1, the Money Supply (M1) stays the same at $54 Trillion US.
So the link offered shows the M1 for all the countries tracked in the CIA world fact book all shown converted into dollars by their respective exchange rates. Iraq shows $54B, not $54T. Further if the exchange rate went up by 1166 (i.e. from 1166 IQD/dollar to 1 IQD/dollar) clearly the total value of M1 would go up by that amount also. So using these figures Iraq's M1 is 63T IQD currently valued at $54B USD and at 1:1 would be $63T USD. Adding up all the numbers in the chart we see the combined M1 for the entire world is $33T. So clearly it makes no sense at all for Iraq to have an M1 worth double that of the entire planet combined.
Maybe Markinsa is part of the scam at DV and did this intentionally, but I suspect they are just drunk on Koolaid like others and after a glance at the chart latched onto some way of thinking that the huge RV would not change Iraq's overall M1 value and posted it. If you view all data though the lens that somehow the RV must be possible, you can twist anything into that view. If instead you just look to see what the data says, you get a very different picture. I'm guessing that Markinsa is smart enough to easily understand all that, but does not want to understand it as that would burst the Koolaid high that above all else they want to maintain.
Actually M1 for Iraq has increased to 69,546 as of September 30, 2013.
DeleteHere's another good economic indicator source for those yahoos that want to keep living the lie. You can review the status of all nations on there. The numbers are as of September 30, 2013. Also contains healthy credible articles as well. If you dig a bit you'll find currency info for countries as well.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/indicators
Yea the CIA world fact book is as if Dec 2012. But it is a nice compendium of data. Another great site for all sorts of economic and economic related data is the World bank. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator
DeleteYup, I'm familiar with that one too. In fact I was reading an older article from last year that is still very much pertinent today. It's good write up for gurus & koolaid drunkards to sober up to. ;-)
Deletehttp://menablog.worldbank.org/growth-good-jobs-and-governance-re-development-iraq
So here you have it straight from the horse's mouth regarding exchange where they tell you there "MAY BE RESTRICTIONS" in the future to exchange your dinar which is a fair statement. However, that's exactly the concern many have who are coming to terms with the Iraqi dinar trend is nothing more than a scam. I'm not stating this particular business is scamming or lying but the exchange process / procedure certainly is unsure. Listen clearly to the catch words regarding "middle east", "banks", "secrecy act audit", etc. This person states to request to see a copy of the bank secrecy audit which I believe is something you'd want to see before you even commit to doing business with this or any organization. So I'm curious if they have a copy of that on their website somewhere for all to see prior to deciding if they will move forward with the order or not. Even better will they provide an electronic copy for your records. I'm also not sure why they don't have the UST certificate dinar dealers tend to have on their site showing they qualify as a "Money Service Business".
ReplyDeleteOne thing I did find interesting on their site in the disclaimer is the following statement which alludes to them stating they are selling currency as investment. My understanding is they cannot sell currency as an investor without an SEC license so it can be misconstrued as an investment. I could be wrong but that's what I comprehended.
DISCLAIMER
Sterling Currency Group/DinarBanker is not an accredited financial consultant. Efforts have been made to insure the accuracy of this information, but Sterling Currency Group/DinarBanker can not be held responsible for any losses as a result of its use. By making a purchase you agree that you have researched the currency and understand the risks involved in investing in foreign currency. You agree that you understand that the value of the currency may go down or up depending on circumstances beyond our control.
Sterling Currency Group/DinarBanker is NOT a bank, banker, or trust engaged in lending money, underwriting, selling securities, or acting as a financial planner, loan broker or investment adviser.
Please inspect your order for accuracy promptly upon receipt of your package. If there is a discrepancy in your order, please contact us IMMEDIATELY at 1-888-346-2771. Sterling Currency Group/DinarBanker will not be held responsible for order discrepancies that are not reported to us within 5 days of receipt of your order.
Just thought I'd share.
http://tinyurl.com/n5t7m9l
These dealers are making money hand over fist. Check this out in the 4th paragraph. Now you know why these gurus be pumping like crazy with just adds alone.
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/k8mw4yt
A friend of mine sold back his dinar a few months ago. He went through 3 or 4 dealers before he finally sold them back. Some of the dealers would only buy back if he originally purchased from them. Otherwise, they couldn't verify the "authenticity" of the notes. One of the dealers insisted on wiring money directly into his bank account (which required disclosure of bank account informaiton). The dealer he ended up using agreed to buy them back and send him a check. The catch was he had to mail in his dinar first and wait for them to be authenticated. He took a chance. To their credit, the dealer verified the notes and sent him a check (which cleared). The point is: it is considerably more difficult to sell dinar than to buy. The dealers put up all kinds of road blocks and obstacles to discourage you. Imagine how much more difficult it will be when Iraq redenominates the dinar! There will be a mad rush to exchange notes before they become worthless. If dealers continue to buy them at all, they will, without a doubt, charge a substantially higher premium. People that are staring at a 20-30% loss right now will be looking at a 40-50% loss. Dinarians that claim they will "never" sell (even after years and years of failed predictions and countless warnings) and plan to hold on to the bitter end are foolish. They are just guaranteeing a loss of 100%. The difficult process of trading dinar for dollars (or any other currency) should be a huge red flag to everybody. There is only a limited market for dinars now! That market could, and probably would, dry up instantly if there is a redenomination. The dealers don't want to get stuck with a bunch of worthless notes if Iraq redenominates. Unfortunately, greed is a powerful emotion. It has its claws deep in the pocketbook of many dinarians.
ReplyDeleteSo networth you bring up an interesting point because just yesterday I was recalling an article I heard about 1+ yrs ago on the gatekeepers call where they read and I paraphrase that CBI is not interested in the notes that are outside of the country because those would be absorbed by the local central banks or treasury as oil credits. I'm so tired of hearing about oil credits because as we all know oil is purchased in dollars NOT dinar. People have argued that Iraq will credit US with dollars for those dinar to then be converted to petro dollars. Well, if that is so then how would that be any different then Fed Reserve or US treasury selling the dinar back to CBI?? It just doesn't add up.
DeleteThe reason why the "oil credits" punch line is always used is because of the propaganda that we invaded Iraq for oil, which is only part of the real truth, so that we can essentially steal there oil for $32/ barrel and sell at $110/barrel. That may or many not be true but what I do know is that Iraq does not have trillions of USD to cover all of the dinar outside Iraq @ 1USD and certainly not at 3USD. It's insanity at it's worse level.
Here is one other article that Joey from gatekeepers read where Iraq has $816 BILLION sitting in some fund which is in addition to the DFI fund. If that is so why isn't that money disclosed to the IMF, CBI, WTO and other organizations that overlook & scrutinize their economic capacity?
The problem with the gatekeepers aside from being pumpers (with a pseudo intellectual / charismatic twist) for two dinar dealers is that they refuse to disclose, either on their website like IQDTEAM or on the phone, the name of the articles they read is because they add their twist which is not verifiable. Ask them to share the articles by at least title name or links and they'll tell you that they are afraid other GURUS like them will steal their story line as if it's intellectual property.
It's all the same game just different stadium.
The whole notion of "oil credits" is absurd. It supposes that dinar will actually be redeemed by the US Treasury rather than the CBI. Somehow, in the liar's mind, notes outside of Iraq will be distinguishable from notes currently inside Iraq. It's stupidity. A note is a piece of paper with ink on it. Aside from the serial number, they are completely indisinstinguishable from one another. Notes currently outside Iraq were inside Iraq at one point. They could just as easily be back inside Iraq almost instantly. Notes are indisinstinguishable from one another and are indistinguishable from dinar in bank deposits. A dinar is exactly the same whether it is in Iraq, in the US or in the bank. M2 matters! It is the only accurate measure of a nations total money supply. If the US Treasury were to somehow redeem notes in the US for 10 cents, 1 dollar or 3 dollars how would it prevent dinar from around the world from being redeemed? Obviously, it can't. Nearly every single dinar in the world would make its way to the US if the owner learned that dinar were being redeemed for 10 cents a piece. And, of course, if the CBI never changes the official exchange rate of the dinar at the auction, there will be a run on dinar. There would be a shortage of dinar in no time and merchants and citizens in Iraq would no longer use dinar to conduct business. They wouldn't even want to conduct business in dinar. Why exchange goods and services with dinar (at a low exchange rate) when you can receive considerably more for them by selling them to the US Treasury? And what possible reason would the Treasury have for accumlating a bunch of dinar? For what purpose? To buy oil? Why? Oil is traded in dollars. Iraq wouldn't even want dinar in those circumstances. Their citizens would turn right around and trade them in for dollars as soon as they hit the street. If the Treasury makes the market in dinar with some special exchange rate, then nobody else will want dinar. The Treasury will just end up with copious amounts of, quite literally, worthless dinar and mountains of additional debt because, of course, the Treasury doesn't issue our currency. For the US Treasury to pay a dollar to anyone, it has to either confiscate the dollar from someone else through taxation or borrow the dollar. See how ridiculous this is? The idea of "oil credits" is a fable promoted by scam artists to spread ignorance and confusion. Since few very people understand currency exchange in the first place talking about "oil credits" and other nonsense makes you sound like you know what you're talking about. But it's just pure rubbish.
DeleteHey networth, while you're on the dinar topic there I have a question you may know the answer to or anyone else like Sam. Yesterday someone I know who bought dinar at some point this year or last year kept saying they had a low denom so I wasn't happy until I saw it. Well they produced a 25 dinar note which is green. They only had one because their dinar dealer who is a very popular one was providing them as a free gift of loyalty or some sort.
DeleteMy reason for raising this is two reasons. First, it has been argued that lower denoms have not yet been printed but somehow this dealer got a hold of some. Second, if these dealers are GIVING AWAY these lower denoms then they are doing one of two things I can think of: either those 25 dinar notes will also be worthless and new ones will surface when they are printed OR they are trying to send the message of "redenomination" is what is coming and get with it because the 25k notes will be worthless. I just visited the dealers site and the lowest denom they have for sale at this point is 50 dinar so the 25 dinar note this person showed me is not being sold even.
Just wondering if anyone has more information on this. Glad I'm not with that crap. Just seems like more and more confusion daily.
The Saddam 25 note was green but it's worthless now. Maybe they were giving them out for the collector's value? Otherwise I have no idea.
DeleteNetworth is correct. You cannot separate Dinar inside vs outside Iraq as they cross borders all the time. And treating Dinar in bank accounts 1,000x differently from Dinar banknotes will just result in a run on the banks and catastrophic collapse of Iraq's banking system. It takes a "special" kind of pumper to pump that one.
Deletevinny7 - They only had one because their dinar dealer who is a very popular one was providing them as a free gift of loyalty or some sort.
Vinny, they're "free" because they're worthless. The 25 Dinar notes are from the Saddam series that were demonetized back in 2004:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_dinar#1990-2003_Series
Yet more proof most Dinar selling "Money Services Businesses" are a bunch of cowboys (as if any more was needed)...
Thanks Sam and Brian. Makes complete sense. Even more of a reason for them to pump the $3 rate because while it was true at one time it was against the lower denoms anyway not the triple 000's. Like the song says, "I can see clearly now the rain is gone." Well many of these stupid pumping jerks are still throwing muddy waters at the gullible. Some get it, others will lose big time.
DeleteLooks like someone else needs a hug.
ReplyDeleteHello fib- how are your friends at the douchbags site. Tell Dinarck to kiss my a$$. Most of is know that the Kuwait story and your point is? The Iraqi dinar is on a different road and can't be compared - it can though to post war germany
Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/166707-for-those-of-u-that-still-believe-the-kuwait-rv-lie/#ixzz2mKqc9xvB
Poor DinarBeliever. He really believes that there was a massive RV in Germany after the war. I guess he could be led to believe anything that leads to him becoming rich for nothing.
DInarBeliever has stated multiple times that he believes that the dinar will "RV" because some bankers told him so and that his "translator" said that they were announcing it on Iraqi TV. So......his banker friends know he is a sucker and easily swayed by nonsense so they tell him what he wants to hear in order to get him to spend money opening accounts in their banks in preperation for the "RV". His "translator" and himself are obviously confused about Iraq telling people about the upcoming redenomination. Of course GO RV of the brain mistakes redenomination with "RV". Let me guess dinarbeliever.......they said it would raise purchasing power right? Well......a redenomination would put the dinar on par with the American dollar. Thats pretty good purchasing power if you ask me. Or does it need to be you becoming a multimillonaire overnight for it to make sense? Also a redenomination would in fact raise the value of the dinar. From 1166 to near 1. There is your massive "RV" dinarbeliever. Problem is your hyperinflated notes will retain their exchange rate and the new notes will be worth 1000 times more. Sigh.....I know....economics just isnt very friendly to the get rich quick overnight scheme crowd. Better luck next time.
By the way....I would be happy to have this debate in a forum where we could exchnage. Problem is....you hide on a highly censored site where truth is quickly deleted. Hmmmmm....wonder why that is. Thanks to Fib who somehow has managed to avoid the axe (unlike 100s before him) we get to at least go back and forth through Sams site and your censor site. Also we all know that you lack the fortitude to come here and spout your ludicrous "theories" seeing how you would quickly be shown to be clueless as you are.
How stupid will these dummies and pumpers feel if I were to win the lotto, buy 10 million dinar and then make a video of burning them in a camp fire?? That would set off all kinds of prophecy alarms (not bashing believers just those fools that use it as a tool to lie), coffee addicted beanheads who spend all night and day chasing unsubstantiated gurumors, and thousands of calls to bank mgrs and executives on sunday while they are fishing / golfing / church.
DeleteBut I couldn't do that because I respect the value of money and not waste it on piss poor dreaming. Heck if you want to do that then spend $1 a week on a lotto ticket and get your fix until next week. It's a helluva lot cheaper but the chances although extremely thin are realistic. ;-)
Seems there are even "dummy" websites being set up for this Dinar adventure........such as Baghdad invest...........doesn't it seem odd that this famous economist has the same namesake as a doll??
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.com/#q=Marisol+Luna
That's a shame!! Now the poor doll has a bad image. lol
Delete