He wasn't posting much on the dinar over the past year or so, saying that he wanted to focus more on his family and his work. But recently Marcus has added a few posts to his blog and has been participating in a discussion at Baghdad Invest about the fraudulent nature of dinar marketing. He's of the belief that Iraq is using US dollars from the sale of dinar to build their reserves, and that when they redenominate they'll probably only allow exchanges in Iraq, virtually ensuring that anyone holding IQD outside of Iraq will lose what they've invested. This is a worst case scenario for dinar investors, and it's a view I haven't really subscribed to until recently.
The reason I'm reconsidering my view is that a man calling himself Zahlid who claims to be an Iraqi connected to the CBI has been saying essentially the same thing that Marcus has been saying. He's saying that the RD will occur in a couple of months and dinar investors will have nobody to blame except for the lying conmen who have been pumping it for years. This, coupled with reading through Marcus' research has me wondering now if the worst case scenario is what we'll soon be seeing.
The emergence of Baghdad Invest and Marcus' re-emergence, along with Mr IQD's input have created a sort of alliance among our sites to expose the scammers and the lies they've spread for the longest time. I posted recently about Baghdad Invest and Mr IQD, and today I would like to invite my readers to check out Marcus' thoughts on his blog and a couple of threads at Baghdad Invest.
http://www.baghdadinvest.com/dinar-updates-iraq-currency-watch/
http://www.baghdadinvest.com/iraqi-dinar-revaluation-strong-thoughts-jack/
I would like to remind everybody that I don't want the liability of stating personal information in the comments. When it comes to dinarbeleiver I have been trying to leave the comments off moderation and would just delete his comments when I saw them, but I had a busy day yesterday and he snuck in and commented several times. Deleting those comments wouldn't be a big deal if people hadn't replied to them, but now when I delete them I'll delete the replies as well. My suggestion would be for everybody to just ignore the troll and give me time to delete his comments. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteUnderstood Sam. Feel free to delete any of my responses you feel inappropriate. Apologies if I annoyed anyone, but some of the gibberish "GCR" links I've seen posted elsewhere are currently "doing the rounds" by the usual BS "guru's" and just wanted to clear up for the sake of any unaware "lurkers" here that they were all about the usual Euro / SDR's / Basel III, etc, issues, and the Dinar Guru's as usual (along with their amateur wannabes) are being chronically dishonest in "pretending" they "must" mean changing currency values when they have absolutely nothing to do with it. Thanks.
DeleteGreat posts. It certainly makes sense from Iraq's point of view to do this. It would be the pinnacle of irony if the Dinar DID slightly RV by 5% or so for Iraqi's inside Iraq as a result of refusing to exchange all Dinar held outside of Iraq and having their money supply shrink in real terms over and above an RD... Marcus's posts were excellent especially spelling out the perfectly legal right (and links to the related legal documents) for Iraq to do just that.
ReplyDeleteIf it does happen, then it becomes perfectly apparent why all these guru's and guru wannabes try to hide their real names & identities and why large swathes of MSB's will disappear overnight ;-) Even if criminal charges do not materialize, I can easily see a number of civil cases aimed at MSB's whose "well we're not actually saying it will go up" is on very thin ice given they've repeatedly been made aware exactly why 99% of customers are buying it an dhave made no reasonable attempt to clarify the issue, who links to their sites, and why they contain pumper soundbites like the usual false claims of EO13303 (which isn't even about currency), and why as Marcus points out, the FinCEN laws do a lot more than just require a one-line disclaimer of "This investment can go down as well as up" into the realms of explaining why it may not be tradable at all. Dinar Trade's "news" is blatant guru sound-bites with no mention of deteriorating security, etc, especially the ridiculous Dong pumping. LOL.
Remains to be seen if Iraq does redenominate in March as Zahlid claimed or just continue on at current value. Not only can Iraq instigate currency controls, they've done it repeatedly - pre and post invasion (you couldn't change up Saddam Dinars -> NID's in the West during the Oct 2003 -> Jan 2004 changeover grace period, either). Personally, I can see 2014 being a great year for finally tearing down a lot of this stuff.
"This investment can go down as well as up" - Isn't this statement by the MSBs an admittance that they are knowingly selling the paper as an investment, though not providing advice which is key, rather than just be money exchangers? That could be what busts the tails wide open but I'm sure there are some high priced lawyers who would drag those cases out for years.
DeleteI'm not sure if Iraq will redenominate anytime soon but, if they do, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if they limited the exchange. It is confusing and burdensome for vendors, contractors, producers and consumers to maintain two sets of prices and 2 sets of notes. Iraq will certainly not want to drag out the process. Iraqi citizens don't trust banks (with good reason) so a large portion of their money supply is in notes. The best way to encourage a timely changeover is to limit the period of exchange. There may be a couple of enterprising entrepreneuers that offer to exchange notes for people outside of the country but you can bet it won't be cheap. If Iraq chooses to redenominate at some point in the future, I don't have any doubt that many dinarians are going to be left holding a bag of notes that are, quite literally, worthless. Anybody that was suckered into this scam on the mistaken belief that it was a low risk (or no risk) venture, will learn otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThis something I have often wondered about, even suspected actually, is Iraq in fact a willing participant in this? I don't mean intentionally scamming, they are in fact doing the opposite if anything, but actually taking advantage of the situation to bring in more U.S. Dollars by the sale of their nearly worthless notes for hard cash? I know the numbers generated by the scam are small in proportion to a national budget even for a country the size of Iraq but is it of an amount significant enough to attract an interest in selling Dinar? I would think that by now the flow of new Dinar from Iraq into the scam would have slowed to a trickle with Dinar dealer sales probably fueled by "recycled" notes instead of fresh imports but then I am only guessing. If this is true then it's quite likely that they will make every effort to profit even more by blocking the return of notes that have entered the speculation black market, but then the only action they may have taken is to laugh at the foreigners buying their nearly worthless paper!
DeleteI think this may be the case too, not in the "evil" sense of wanting to see people hurt, but rather self-interest. The assets of the CBI are its $ reserves and its liabilities are its issued Dinar. Issued Dinar are only "positive" for the CBI when they're participating in the Iraqi economy contributing to economic growth (which paper banknotes stuck in someone sock drawer in Oklahoma for years on end are obviously not). It's very much in the CBI's interest to reduce the latter with currency controls during the changeover. As for possible changeover timelines, Europe changed over from pesetes / francs, etc, to Euro's in barely 2 months (1st Jan to 28th Feb 2002), and that was for over +330m people spread across 20 countries.
DeleteI think the reason Iraq hasn't redenominated yet is less nefarious than we might think.
DeleteRedenominations are common throughout the world and I believe Iraq wanted to complete one by now. But when nearly half your money supply is in notes and most transactions take place in cash, it is a daunting task that requires considerable coordination, education, security and cooperation. If the economy operated via electronic transactions (credit cards, debit cards, ACH, EFT and direct deposit) it would be much easier. I think Iraq was hopeful that citizens would have more confidence in their banks by now. But most citizens still don't even have a bank account. In addition, violence in Iraq is getting worse, not better. I think they anticipated a far more peaceful and calm Iraq by now. It would be a logistical and security nightmare trying to exchange billions of notes right now. Most nations don't have those obstacles when they redenominate. The chaos, even by Iraqi standards, would be unfathomable. If I were a betting man (and I'm not), I'd bet it will be a long time before Iraq decides to redenominate. Unfortunately, that's probably good news for the clowns.
Technically speaking Iraq's CBI laws, if I remember correctly, state that Iraqi dinar leaving it's borders is illegal at least at the personal or individual level and most likely not for banks so that would be sufficient reason for them to block entering there borders / customs at airport. But if they for some reason allow dinar back in I will go out on a limb and bet that there would be a limit to the amount of dinar you could exchange such as 10k. If that were to be the case I could see the desperados purchasing airline tickets and extended hotel reservations to exchange all of their notes over a long period of time and essentially walk away with a very small profit at best. But to me that is a long stretch. That's when you will see these so-called exchange groups of Generals64 and others REALLY scam many of the Reno / DC / SC like exchangers promising to go to Iraq with bulk dinar and exchange the notes for the poor suckers ultimately taking their dinar and leaving them in the wind. To me that is a much more likely scenario which will end this scam much faster when the victim stories become more prevalent and the "investors" have no where to run but to the fireplace with the IQD.
DeleteBrian you're exactly right there is nothing "evil" in the Iraqi's allowing Dinar to leave the country in exchange for a product they want and NEED, namely U.S. Dollars! Iraq has never "pumped" the Dinar in any way and they have actually made their intentions as to what they intend to do (re-denominate) quite clear so if Dinar idgits get stuck with worthless paper it is in no way Iraq's fault! Iraq would not be "screwing" anyone out of anything since they did not offer Dinar for sale as an investment and actually even discouraged the practice for obvious reasons so they would be well within their rights to close the borders, in fact it would be the smart thing to do! Given Iraq's Dollar reserves (about 40 to 50 Billion at the peak of this scam????) then 1 or 2 Billion Dollars, which of course translates into a couple of Trillion Dinar, should have been enough for someone to take notice that there was an opportunity to increase hard currency reserves simply by not restricting the flow of Dinar out of the country then by restricting the return flow it becomes in essence free money! This is all done legally and ethically since all they did was to take advantage of something they discouraged in the first place!
ReplyDeleteGreat job DD, you were the first site I visited when I started reading the gurus garbage and I checked out BI and seen his video and knew 100% then that the dinar was a scam. In the comments I seen Tonys number and texted him calling him a scam artist and he texted me back calling me an asshole lol after cutting his call short. He made another call later and to my amazement he gave out my number lol. Well II wish I could say I had that planned but Im not that smart but within a day I had about 350 numbers of his core group and started texting them to go to BI and look at a video of Tony and I not saying Im the only cause but BI has become very popular loll. I can say I showed at least 50 people that Tony is a scam artist and theres a 99 percent chance that the only people that will get rich is the dinar dealers. There's still a lot of work to do to put these gurus in prison. i
ReplyDeleteNo Kenny you are definitely wrong! There is NOT a 99% chance the only people who will get rich are the Dinar Dealers, there's a ZERO% chance that speculators will get rich!
DeleteWhy do people, even those who know it's a scam, keep referring to this being a long-shot or use terms like "Million-to-one" when it's actually zero, not a long-shot, not a Million to one but absolutely NO CHANCE at all -NONE that this "RV" will happen!
Why can't people understand, there's no chance at all because there's nothing to happen, it's all 100% made up fantasy not something that is an economic possibility!
Kenny accidentally I left out part of what I intended to say and thus my post came across as being a bit harsh which was not the intent, actually I agree with you and I meant to expand on your point not criticize it it, I got in a bit of a rush and posted before I was ready.
Delete009, The 1% I was talking about is the gurus. I don't think they are rich yet but they will be if we don't stop them. I agree that there is a zero chance that the people who bought dinar are going to get rich lol.
DeleteQuite ingenious by Iraq lawmakers to simply honour only the domestic currency supply. This truly would be an ironic conclusion to this mess... Bunch of dreamers sitting on piles of worthless paper.
ReplyDeleteSteve please read Sam's first post at the top here, let's respect his wishes.
ReplyDeleteOk, I just read it.
DeleteThanks!
Sam you may want to send something to DB...he's back in DV playing the victim. Here's his post
ReplyDeleteHi ya fib it was attempting to show genuine news sites to those cockroaches but they twist and lie and make up stuff to fit their agenda. Then they resorted to name calling. Anyway I found out their leaders real name Sam I am aka ROB SAUNDERS - appear he has a few indictments against him for deformation of character. I can give you the links as well. Just as I suspected fib the lopsters have an obvious agenda
Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/170121-bank-of-indonesia-says-stable-economy-key-to-successful-redenomination/page-6#ixzz2qyA6wQU6
I too saw that, the truth obviously means nothing to that raving idiot!
DeleteThe dude has serious issues. I wonder where he's getting his info from. Dontlop aka somebody1
DeleteThanks, CFO. But I think the best policy with trolls is to just ignore them.
DeleteSam I have always felt that once Iraq RD that it will only be in country. They've done it before and I believe other countries have as well when doing a rd. I remember I sent that article up you before showing Iraq has done before. I am pretty confident that that's what they'll do. In fact I'm hoping that they do it so dinar "investors" have no one to blame but themselves. They've been warned about it and yet they choose to ignore facts due to their greed.
ReplyDeleteMy 2 CTs on that,
DeleteI hadn't thought much about Iraq limiting the flow of Dinar back into the country until today when discussing whether or not Iraq might have intentionally allowed Dinar out of the country for the purpose of receiving Dollars and other currencies (Allowed, not actively marketed!) but it suddenly occurred to me that if there is (for example) two Trillion Dinar in the hands of speculators, and I'm willing to bet it's much more than that given the dealers sales claims, there would be a huge incentive to prevent as much as possible from returning. When considering that most Dinar being returned would be in the form speculator held notes it would seem all the more likely for them to take steps to prevent it's return, after all it would almost certainly be seen as an attempt by westerners to STEAL Iraqi wealth and they would very likely be highly disinclined to return these Dollars to these speculators.
Here is a note that I typed up to send to some of my dinarian friends. Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears. Hopefully someone here will read it and it will open someone's eyes.
DeleteSterling currency Group makes profits of “millions of USD per month” See page 2 of http://statecasefiles.justia.com/documents/georgia/supreme-court/s11a1550.pdf?ts=1327428137
from 2008 to 2011 Sterling Currency Group has exchanged $4.4 Million into IQD in about 5,000 transactions. http://www.securities.arkansas.gov/!userfiles/Consent%20Order%20C-11-0205-11-OR02.pdf
How does this work out numbers wise.
Population of US 308,747,508
Population of Arkansas 2,915,919
Average population of US by State 6,174,950
In order to increase the population of Arkansas to the average population of the US by state multiply by
2.11
So if there are $4.4 Million in sales in Arkansas multiplied by 2.11 means there is an average sales per state of $9.28 Million. Multiplied by the 50 states that means there could have been sales of $464.2 Million in the US in the span of 3 years from only one company. We have had another 1.67 years since then. That converts to $775 Million. That anticipates the sales of IQD have maintained constant and haven't been increased over time. I can't believe that they haven't had an increase in sales. If they have had a 10% increase in sales they total sales would be in the neighborhood of $806 million. Once again this is only one company. How many dealers are there? Maybe 10. If Sterling is selling an average amount (big assumption I know) then there would possibly be as much as $8 Billion in total sales in the US alone. How much more is there in Canada? How about Europe? Could there be as much sales in Europe and Canada as been in the US? What is that now? $16 Billion of sales. That means there could be about 16 Trillion IQD outside of the country sold in the last 4.5 years. We have been in this for 10 years now. Is it possible to believe that there is at least 30 trillion IQD in private holders outside of the country of Iraq? I think so. So we are talking about a RV of about $4/1 IQD. So if Iraq RV's to $4/1IQD then the total value of the IQD outside the country would be $120 Trillion. Now add that an internal Money Supply of 80 Trillion IQD, that means that the value of all of the IQD both in and out of the country would be around $320 Trillion.
My point in sending this to my friends was to try to get them to think logically (I know for the average dinarian that is asking for an awful lot) and to think is it reasonable to believe that a third world rated country with very little in the way of infrastructure is going to hand over to the people of the world over $100 Trillion USD. The first problem I had with the idea of this RV is that it didn't make sense that something so cheap would instantly be worth so much. The second was why would Iraq be willing to go along with transferring its wealth to the rest of the world. If this GCR is going to happen, why does Iraq have such a big role to play in it? What does the average Iraqi think of "saving the rest of the world" economically? If they have such great wealth and the rest of the world needs it, why in God's Name would they just give it away? Doesn't it make much more sense to think that they would leverage their wealth into becoming a first rate superpower? But I guess it is too much to ask for to believe that anyone would actually think critically about this. Once the delusion of wealth has taken hold, it is too powerful to overcome.
Wow if those figures are correct then the sale of Dinar would amount to a windfall for Iraq instead of some (relatively) small amount that might merely attract some attention! I would never for a second have thought that Dinar speculators would have been holding enough Dinar for the Iraqi's to actually consider it as a factor in their monetary policy but with figures like that I could see some Iraqi economists questioning the wisdom of killing the goose laying the golden eggs!
DeleteCould it be?????
The only issue Steve with the calculations is the number of sales dosn't necessarily equate to the amount of dinar in circulation via dinar dealers because we have to account for resell of dinar back to dealers and that gets recirculated back out the door. However, I still believe the amount of dinar outside Iraq's borders must be in the trillions.
DeleteDBAR just wants Sam to retaliate childishly like he does.
ReplyDeleteSo, should we expose the real names of all the mental midgets over on the other sites? I think that would clearly generate more transparent discussions and possibly be an impetus for change. Anonymity is clearly giving some of these idiots more panache and protection from the law than they deserve.
ReplyDeletePlease keep in mind that those names will certainly not be posted on this amazing website. Rather, I am considering other very public outlets in order not to risk negative exposure to this site.
Everyone knows what an opinion is like but here's mine, blatant pumpers/scammers who knowingly are lying in order to swindle people out of their money should be exposed in every way possible but those who are just naive/gullible or simply old fashioned stupid should be left anonymous if that's what they want. As much as I dislike DB's manner and the things he says I still have to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he falls into the old fashioned stupid category and does not directly profit from the scam so his anonymity, and that of those like him, probably should be respected, but then that's just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe Dinar Enthusiast...
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/NMZTuBz.jpg
I guess Okie finally landed the plane. Or is that Pooopy3. Then again it could be DBAR in UK.
DeleteLoL.
DeleteOkie Landed
http://i.imgur.com/NMZTuBz.jpg
I have always had a suspicion that Iraq was profiting from selling Dinar. Afterall.........they can print as much as they want and as long as there are gullible people around the world who keep demanding it. Why not keep printing it and exchanging it for USD? Especially if you can close your borders to returning currency during the RD.
ReplyDeleteYou always hear the delusioned say that Iraq would never redenominate (which is a joke in itself) or would never close their borders because they would upset "investors" that they need to rebuild Iraq. Of course we all know true investors actually invest in business and stock not hyperinflated middle eastern hard currency. What investors in Iraq are going to care about a RD of the dinar? Those people want dollars as a return on their investments in Iraq. They don't give two shites about dinar. Its typical of the brainwashed though to think that all the big wigs around the world looking to profit from Iraqs growth are all completely mesmerized with then dinar like its some huge "investment". The fact is none of those people care about an inflated LOCAL currency.
One thing to keep in mind is the time that Iraq will allow the old dinar to remain legal tender. We have read anywhere from 1 to 10 years. The outcome of that issue will likely be the key factor in determining if the dinar "investors" will be able to recoup any of their money from this scam at all. If it is 10 years then there will be profit to be made by smuggling in "investors" ex-lotto ticket dinars at a huge mark up. Even 1 year maybe enough time for the services to pop up. The confused dinar "investors" will be scrambling like crazy to find any way possible to offload their worthless paper when they finally wake up to reality post RD. It will be a lucrative business if you have a way to get the dinar back into Iraq. Suckers will be lined up begging for your services just to regain whatever small percentage of their original "investment" that they can. I will feel sad for some and I will be laughing at a few that have it coming.
Then there are the ones who believe that there will be money to be made post redenomination. I admit that I was one of these at one point. The thinking is that once they LOP then they will instantly RV to 3.50 because they are proud and want to out do Kuwait and yada yada yada. That makes we wonder if it would be possible to exchange old dinar for new outside of Iraq. Probably not. If that service was offered it would more than likely be so expensive that it wouldn't be worth the trouble. You would really have to be convinced that Iraq was going to triple their exchange rate in a small period of time which we all know is economic nonsense.
Overheard a couple of my friends talking this past weekend. They really should start a 12 step program for these poor fools that have bought into this stupid thing. One said to the other that Iraq had to RV by April because that's when the election is going to happen and it had to happen before then. I started laughing and had to excuse myself. A little later I walked in and they were talking about the Vietnamese dong. One was saying how great of a deal he was getting on purchasing 8,000,000 dong for something like $657. The guy he was talking to said he didn't think it had appreciated quite that much yet. So I did the research and this is the note I sent him.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't help but overhear you talking about someone offering 8,000,000 dong for sale for more than $600. Here are some facts about it.
Travelex is selling the dong for 8,000,000 dong = $506.25
http://www.travelex.com/US/For-Individuals/Rates/Currency-Exchange-Rates/
Which is a true ripoff from the actual value of 8,000,000 dong = $379.60 as traded on Forex
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=8000000&From=VND&To=USD
Here are some interesting facts about Vietnam
Annual GDP $153.5 Billion
Annual government revenues $38.89 Billion
Annual government expenditures = $45.38 Billion
Annual deficit -4.2% of GDP
Annual rate of inflation 9.2%
M-2 Money Supply
3.454 quadrillion Dong = $163.5 Billion
This means that their money supply would be worth $1.62 Quadrillion if they RV'd to $0.47 per dong.
The entire EU has a Money supply of 15.49 Trillion USD
The money supply of the entire world is 93.91 Trillion USD
Estimated GDP of the entire world is 99.2 Trillion USD
So does it make sense that Vietnam (with the 167th largest GDP out of 229 countries and territories) will have a money supply worth more than 17 times the entire money supply of the entire world? It didn't to me and that is why after doing this research I sold all of my holdings of dong. I bought at about $60/ million I sold at about $40/ million. I truly regret not doing this research before I purchased.
I found all of this information at
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vm.html
I encourage you to do the same research that I have done and prove me wrong. I would love to be wrong. I just don't see how it is possible that I am wrong.
Excellent posts Steve. That's exactly what people need to see to wake up. With 3.5 quadrillion Dong in circulation, Dong pumping is even more absurd than the Dinar...
DeleteYeah I can't see why people do not realize that the dong keeps depreciating over the last few years. Do they think the currency has to sink to bottom of barrel before it springs 1,000,000%..? The logic is totally ludicrous.
DeleteMost of these people have no logic or common sense. Their world revolves around conspiracy theories and everything is controlled by the PTB. Quite a sad and pathetic way of living life.
DeleteI'm starting to believe more each day that the egos of these losers has down spiraled so bad that the only thing they have to hang onto is the thought they own mega millions of VND of which we know can be purchased for about $1k or so. That's how bad they want the millionaire status.
DeleteSadly Iraqi death toll continues to climb by double digits daily. Don't know how many desperado dinarians are willing to make that trek to the war infest sandbox to attempt a currency exchange but I'm sure the dreamers are in it till the end and that may very well be the end for them and the dinars if the locals get wind they are loaded with pink pu pu paper.
ReplyDeleteThe douchebags I would love to see exposed is Studley and Generals64 real identity.
ReplyDeleteAs I posted on Marcu's site a while back, I'm a bit skeptical of Zahlid's claims.
ReplyDelete* Typically a redenomination plan is formalized, i.e. not just proposed but written in stone and approved by all parities long before it is actually executed. We have yet to see this in Iraq (have we missed it?)
* They will have to get a new ISO-4217 code and that does not appear to have happened (note that while the standard is ISO-4217.2008, it has been updated to include Turkmenistan's RD which used TMT in 2009). How long this takes is not clear, it might be just days but I have no idea.
* The articles have all talked about an RD allowing 1 or 2 years for both currencies to exist in the market (i.e. business's would be required during this period to accept either), as has been done on many RDs. But its also true that many countries have not demonitized the old currency. I think you can still today go to a large German bank and exchange Marks for Euros. Not all Eurozone countries did so, but some.
* I think the motivation for the 4 month exchange period for the Saddam dinars was how easy it was to counterfeit them, where as the current currency is pretty modern.
* How does IQD get out of the country now? The CBI tries to limit dollar exchanges for use by importers only, but the IQD dealers do not seem to have a problem getting IQD. How much is recirculated and how much comes in new from Iraq is hard to say. But there must be some path and it might not be illegal. i.e. banks in neighboring countries. So it seems likely that with sufficient profit motive (i.e. 20% spreads in the other direction) that this channel will be reversed, but of course this is not certain.
So COULD an RD happen in March 2014 and COULD it be structured so as to make out of country IQD difficult to exchange so holders would lose their entire investment? Absolutely. But I don't think its very likely.
Here's one of the questions posted in Adam Montana's Weekly Chat Thread.
ReplyDelete"I get the impression the only person cashing in is YOU."
Good to see the light bulb finally kicking on for that guy.
Someone has a question for you guys under the CONFERENCE CALL MONEY MACHINE blog post.
ReplyDeleteDown at the bottom. From Ashley.
here's the delirious so called preacher once again posting his garbage on the net for all to see! just last week he claimed that the window was open and their should be an RV within days. of course he has been saying that every week for years now. he has had more windows than randy koonce (and that's a lot of windows!)
ReplyDeletePoppy3 - HERE IS THE LATEST I HAVE HEARD DIRECT FROM BAGDAD. MUCH DISRUPTION WITHIN ALL PARTIES AND THE DIVISION IS WIDE SPREAD AT THIS TIME. THE BEST PART OF THE NEWS AT THIS POINT IS THEY HAVE SCHEDULED MEETINGS TO TRY AND SOLVE THE DIFFERENCES. THEY HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENCES THAT WORD ON THE STREET SAYS THIS WILL TAKE MORE TIME THAN ANY OF US HAVE EXPECTED. THERE ARE SUPPOSEDLY 8 ISSUES BESIDES JUST THE OIL ISSUES BUT I WAS TOLD IF THEY CAN GET PASSED THE OIL TRADE ISSUES AND THE % THAT IS BEING PAID FOR THE OIL THEN MOST OF ALL THE OTHER ISSUES CAN BE SOLVED VERY QUICK BUT THOSE TWO HURDLES ARE THE BIG ONES.
THEY STATED THE BUDGET, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE STATED MANY MANY TIMES, HAS BEEN AGREED TO…WILL NEVER BE PASSED TILL AGREEMENTS WITH KURDS HAS BEEN SETTLED. THIS ISN’T THE BEST NEWS BUT IT ISN’T BAD EITHER. THEY KNOW WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN AND THEY ARE LIGITMATELY PUSHING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. TIME WILL TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM.
Hey DD, got on the big call last night and was able to tell the audience that Tony was going to court on monday. the link is https://www.freeconferencecallhd.com/playback/?n=HsCgW/dbaP1 I come on at 110m and my mike gets cut off in 2m .
ReplyDeleteHaha. Great job Kenny. Not surprised they cut you off quickly. You could almost hear the "Oh sh*t" thought processes of the guy handling the call when you stated the figure he's in court for...
DeleteTHANKS BRIAN, when I got on they said there was 600 people on the call and was wondering if I would be called and when they cut me off I was saying go to BI,DD, and MR.IQD but when I listened they had cut me off lol well there's a few people looking today for answers lol
DeleteGood job! I don't know how you have the patience to sit through that rubbish. But without a doubt, you got a few people scratching their heads today.
DeleteThis is a comment from ladygracesdaddy in response I Adams weekly chat:
ReplyDeleteLOL, guess I'll have to wait until we get to Belize and I buy you a 6 pack. Of course
We might want to be on the beach or some other quite place so you don't get
arrested for all those expletives.
Just imagine the laugh were all gonna have when this is over.
Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/170515-weekly-dinar-chat-jan-22-2014-adam-montana/#ixzz2rAGx2P2V
How delusional are these people!!! And how many times does Adam have to answer the same bs questions with the same bs responses. Every week it's the same garbage and every week I read nothing but praises to Adam. These people are pathetic...especially the ones who buy into the VIP Belize nonsense.
I found it amusing and very ironic that somebody at DV posted about porn sites in Wisconsin on James Wolf's forum. http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/170527-in-wisconsin-you-can-look-at-porn-at-school/?hl=wisconsin
DeleteYeah CFO. LadyGracesDaddy is as delusioned and confused as they come. He once said that Adam was a "dinar genius" and someone he is going to follow long after the "RV". LOL......Adam might be a genius at scamming people out of VIP dues but that's about it. LGD is absolutely convinced that him and Adam are going to be best buddys on the beaches of Belize after the "RV" and has already planned out his new life. Unfortunately for him Adam has no plans whatsoever to EVER visit Belize or meet any of the insane sheep that he has brainwashed with his gonna be rich speak. Just like the bogus "text" that everyone is waiting for from Adam, none of the Belize future investment tax saving wealth management deals will ever come to fruition and that's exactly the way Adam set it up. All he has to do is promise a bunch of crap the he knows for a fact he will never have to make good on and the brainless will hang on his every word as the master of everything dinar. Its pathetic and obvious. Too bad LGD is too hypnotized by Adams lies to ever venture far enough away to hear the truth. The other day someone just mentioned the possibility of a redenomination and LadyGracesDaddy was having none of it. He said it wasn't a possibility or something like that and said if he wanted "lopster" he would go to some restaurant or something stupid like that. The guy doesn't even know what a redenomination is. He thinks its something that is done by evil governments to ripoff "investors".
DeleteMeanwhile Dontlop is still yapping endlessly about the Swiss dinar. Hahahahaha...........he has been shown multiple times the facts and continues to whine and repeat the same lies over and over. Typical dinar hypester. Talk about desperate. Its either the Swiss dinar lie over and over or a fixation on how many screen names someone has had. Zero substance from that clown.
Just like renfrow meeting a thousand people in Vegas and Atlanta and these dead heads are ready to go amazing
DeleteKenny, Here's one you'll probably enjoy (or puke at) from Mr IQD.
Deletehttp://mriqd.com/2014/01/07/tony-tnt-renfrows-own-words-over-the-years/
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIf only I could type.... one more time:
ReplyDeleteI must apologize to parrots everywhere for what was posted in your good name by a fellow human, one Mrparrot at DV (http://snipurl.com/28hghz9) who still hasn't understood that an RD has an exchange rate between currencies, not between notes. Its (e.g.) 1000 IQD for 1 new dinar, not 1000 IQD notes for 1 new dinar note.
"boomer113189, on 22 Jan 2014 - 3:49 PM, said:
1 - 22 - 2014
The Belarusian government plans to knock 'three or four' zeroes off the rubel, Aliaksandr Lukashenka said at a meeting with a group of Belarusian media leaders in Minsk on January 21.
He confirmed that new banknotes had been printed and said that even coins had been minted.
"Even if we feel this year that the economy has become normal, we will announce [a rubel redenomination] six months in advance," he said. "We will be choosing whether to slice three or four zeroes [off the rubel]."
Ok, so what did everyone miss?
Read the above quote again...
How can you have the currency printed and minted,
and yet not know yet how many zeros you're going
to take off...?
Something smells fishy, and it ain't my bowl of clam chowder..."
Obviously if its a 3 zero RD, 1,000:1 then 50,000 rubles are exchanged for 50 New rubles, but how many notes is on either side is irrelevant. likewise if its a 4 zero RD, 10,000:1 then 50,000 rubles would be exchanged for 5 new rubles. In either case the same new notes of 1,5,10,25,50,100 denominations can be used. For electronic accounts of course there are no notes involved. The distribution of notes might be a little different in the two cases, but you can easily print plenty of them to cover it either way.
Southern Shakers rant. Funny and pretty much true. I'd be willing to truck on over to Elm City, NC with him. ;-) LOL
ReplyDeletehttp://mriqd.com/2013/12/02/rant-wow-southern-shaker-is-on-a-long-haul-kick-butt-of-tony-tnt/
Sam, how can we find out which court and if possible the judge or prosecutor Tony Renfrow will be facing next week do we can be sure to flood them with facts and mail to support the case against him?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the prosecutor would love to hear what Tony has been up to.
ReplyDeleteIndictment: https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/Kansas_District_Court/2--12-cr-20041/USA_v._Renfrow_et_al/1/
District Judge Carlos Murguia
Barry Grissom
US Attorney, District of Kansas
500 State Avenue, Suite 360
Kansas City, KS 66101
Hey Ssmith thanks for sharing. Time for me to get to work.
ReplyDeleteBtw, Elm City, NC isn't all that far from me so it may well be worth getting the flyers about Tony and Ray posted throughout the town with their pic, names, scam game and previously convicted information on both. ;-)
Got a kick out of LGDs post (http://snipurl.com/28hlhwj), that site is always good for a chuckle.
ReplyDelete"Follow the money. "
It might be even better advice to follow the early money, but still this is not bad. So is there a single case anywhere in the last decade of any respected investor, or analyst, or wealthy person, or really anyone other than those frequenting RV sites putting money into IQD? Not as far as I know. Even the Iraqi's don't want IQD as is evidenced by the 10% or more spread banks can get over the CBI rate for dollars. Whose and what money does he think he is following?
Our buddy dontlop sets his sights a bit lower and saying (http://snipurl.com/28hmf7w)
ReplyDelete"I don't see a million dollars coming per million either
If I got 30 grand I'd be doing real good
That's like a 3 cent rv"
So if a 100,000% return is totally nuts, is a 3,000% return (a 3 cent RV) less so? In a word, no. Arithmetically speaking the return function isn't defined for values greater than can be supported by the reserves relative to the money supply. Today that allows about a 15% increase. If you want to say the CBI has overstated their liabilities and understated their assets by a few percent (which would be a first in banking history, its invariably the other way around), maybe you can stretch belief to say 25%. But, that's it. You can speculate on probabilities on the down side all the way to zero, but on the upside that's the limit. Within that range the smaller the move the more likely it might be (i.e. a 1% move is perhaps more likely than a 3% move). But outside of that range its impossible no matter if a little outside or a lot outside. A 2x return is impossible and so is a 1000x return. One impossible event can not be more impossible than another impossible event.
TBH, I stopped looking at DinarVets years ago. Aside from one or two of those in the "lopster tank" (ie, truth forum) who don't last long before getting banned for "negativity" (ie, posting "unwelcome facts"), most of the regulars are almost completely divorced from reality and "away with the fairies", feeding off each others fantasies and hopium as their circular "proof" that "everyone's talking about it". It'll rot your brain if you hang round long enough. LOL. :-D
DeleteDid you see where Dontlop is saying the CIA devalued the Dinar? He even went on to say that the CIA air dropped "bales and bales" of Dinar into Iraq! This guy is even dumber than a certain "Believer" that we have all come to know so well.
DeleteMy point exactly dwm. When they run out of arguments - make fantasy sh*t up and claim it's a conspiracy then desperately accuse every "dissenter" of being a "CIA agent". If every "lopster" works for the CIA, they must have 6.999bn global employees ;-) LOL. That's probably why a disproportionate number of conspiracy addicts are sucked into this scam. They are somehow "hard-wired" to believe ANYTHING just because they read it on the net and it tells them what they want to hear... That they'll be the last ones to wake up is honestly, something I no longer feel sympathy for.
DeleteBest to focus on the sane ones who actually ask hard questions and have grown out of the "Hopium Comfort Blanket". Looking at other sites (and the sheer number of Dinar now on Ebay - almost 8,000 private sellers dumping Dinar vs only a couple of hundred a few years back and a couple of dozen a few years before that), it's clear thousands of people are now starting to wake up en masse. As mentioned previously, 2014 is going to be a bad year for guru's.
I agree Brian...the people that are still in this after all the lies have been debunked are hard core conspiracy nuts or elderly religious people.
DeleteI too have witnessed many more people waking up to this scam and selling which is good so all this effort by Sam and others is finally catching on. I still love reading the excuses on DV on why people need to sell off then it's don't worry I'm not selling all my holdings.....YEAH RIGHT!
It is curious. Why is it so obvious that $30 or $3 or even $1 is a ridiculous exchange rate for the dinar but 1 cent or 10 cents or 30 cents is perfectly reasonable? What makes $30 unreasonable but 30 cents reasonable? If they've done the math to determine that $30 is absurd, then they would have to draw that same conclusion about 30 cents. If they just have a "sense" that $30 is high why do they not have that same sense when someone like Montana suggests the rate could be 30 cents? It is perplexing and it is the essense of this scam.
DeleteOk so according to our dear friend DB...he somehow thinks Iraq has to RV in order for obamacare and our national debt to be paid....what does the dinar have to do with the ACA and our national debt? DB just flinging anything out there to make his dreams more realistic. He also stated that Iraq has more gold than oil and soon gold will be over $7000 or something like that. Wow!
ReplyDeleteI suppose if the Iraqi "RV" is going to save the world's economies then paying off the U.S. national debt and saving the (un)affordable care act would not be asking too much! It must be all just part of the plan, you know the plan that was in place when the CIA was air dropping bales and bales (of course Dontlop spelled it "bails") of Dinar over Iraq!
DeleteNow as goofy as that all sounds, and it was of course meant to, it honestly is no worse than some of the things they say that are fully intended to be taken seriously and in fact it has all been said as fact in some of those posts! The point is that it's become all too obvious that some of these people are beyond the reach of reason, WAY beyond, but their nonsense can be of use as a tool to show those who "on-the-fence" just how absurd this whole thing is.
I did not state that gold would be over 7000 dollars I stated it will never reach that. You guys are gonna follow me then please get your facts right
DeleteAs clueless as can be about currencies and general economics and now suddenly an expert on servicing the US debt and the financing of the ACA. He was asked a serious question by Fib and surprise surprise.....he dodged it.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesnt the US just "RV" the dollar? Print up 50 trillion dollars and SUDDENLY declare them each worth 3.50 euros. Thats basically what the RV addicts are saying Iraq is going to do with the dinar.
Did somebody hear something?????
ReplyDeleteSounded like a troll.
Lol....DB, you'll never be able to answer that question because it sounds just as ridiculous as saying Iraq will RV their 84 Trillion. United States has a GDP of 15.68 TRILLION but iraqs money will be worth the same or maybe more than the dollar with their joke of an economy and GDP of 210 billion. Seriously? What planet are you living on?
DeleteNo you're not DB, you just can't answer the question. And why do you keep asking people questions when it's clear you don't want to know the truth and ignore the facts anyway because it goes against you fantasy? I find it funny that you agree with and adore all the morons on DV who have no clue what they're talking about because it's confirmation bias. You think all the lopsters are secret gov agents and that banks in the uk can't discuss the secret RV anymore because of things you said on DV....can you say delusional
DeleteForgot to add an all out hostile takeover of cities and daily bombings...a possible civil war and a horrible non working corrupt government is not a recipe for success but let's ignore the realities and as LGD would say.....FOLLOW THE MONEY. I think he's taking the wrong path because he's openly admitted to being broke. Maybe instead of hanging out on a forum all day complaining about Obama, talking about conspiracies, and fake massive RV's that don't exist, you get a job and a life and contribute to society.
ReplyDeleteLol........its pointless CFO. He has been shown all the facts a decides to continue lying constantly. The whole "Iraq has more gold than oil" lie is a perfect example. Brian showed him irrefutable proof that its false yet he continues to spout it off on DV. He knows its false but he is a dinar pumper who is paid to lie and create illusion. The whole play stupid delusional "investor" is nothing more than a front.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Best not to feed the troll.
DeleteTrust me I know. Then he plays the victim and everything he's doing he turns it around and say they're doing it. Serious mental issues is all I have to say.
DeleteAs usual you can't comprehend what you read. I was clearly talking about LGD in that part of response.
DeleteWait.........there it is again........yup.......I know I heard it that time and it definitely was a troll. A dinar pumping one.
ReplyDeleteYou know something? I think I am going to get me an Iraqi news translator so I can here them telling the population of Iraq for months now that they are going to increase the value of the dinar by 100,000% SUDDENLY overnight. Yup......thats what they have been saying on Iraqi TV. It cant be that they are upset about the market rate being around 1300 which would be grossly undervalued as compared to the exchange rate. But the exchange rate doesnt matter because I assume they are going to remove the zeros off the exchange rate. Afterall......Iraqi TV said they were going to remove zeros. It cant be a common redenomination. What sense would that make? It has to be a 100,000% RV that they have been preannouncing for months on TV.
Oh yes, the removal ov zeros is off the exchange rate only. Never mind when they say 1000 old dinar will equal 1 new dinar....it's all smoke and mirrors. I mean why do you think we invaded Iraq???!!!! It's all part of the plan remember??!! We are all going to be rich and America will have no debt and free healthcare for all!!!!
DeleteDB the only thing on IRAQI tv that could possibly be mentioned in the manner you imagine is the street rate and the fact that the entire world is seemingly unaware of any such tv announcements is all the proof that's necessary that yet again you are spouting nothing but nonsense! Again DB THINK a little bit! Such an announcement would cause a run of speculators on the Iraqi Dinar but even the Joe Iraqi in the street don't want that nearly worthless paper! If they really did announce what you want us to believe then the Iraqi people would be fighting over Dinars instead of selling them for less than they are officially worth yet that fact is totally lost on you? That's exactly the kind of thing I am asking you to look at, simple LOGIC clearly tells anyone with at least two functioning brain cells to rub together that no such announcement has ever been made on Iraqi tv or any other tv (except for maybe Youtube, Lol!!!) yet you continue to repeat that BS! THINK about it! Why are the Iraqi's not excited about it if it were true? Obviously they are not, why not? Because it's not true, at least not in the sense you want to believe.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you can explain why such a revelation as Iraqi tv announcing the Dinar is grossly undervalued has gone unnoticed by everyone except a few Dinar idgits and why even the Iraqi people are obviously not excited over such exciting news as this, go ahead explain that if you can!
Exactly, Iraqis are listening to news stating that dinar will be worth so much more in the future but yet they rather carry the dollar and want nothing to do with the dinar...what sense does that make DB? NONE! As everyone has pointed out to you already and even in Iraq newsprint, it's the market rate that's undervalued. How hard is that to understand?
DeleteI've been saying that for a long time now. If the real world thought there was any truth to the rumor of the dinar RVing to 1:1, then you would be able to get a dinar for anything less than about 90 cents.
DeleteDid anyone know I was Lopster_Stew over on DV? Got banned in one week for asking the brainless Markinska (or whatever the name is) why she was talking about banning stinking lopsters for talking about this site when it was DB who was constantly bringing it up. It was a blessing. Dontlop is like debating a child, and believer, poor guy, just isn't dealing with a full deck.
I suspected who it was and you lasted longer than I would have thought, they had to do something quick and the flimsy excuse they used was all too obvious. It of course had nothing to do with that last post it was all about damage control and you were certainly damaging, way to go there bro!!!!
DeleteHe was not being a troll DB, look at his posts he was (unlike you) making intelligent posts backed up by proof and he did so without indulging in name calling or insults. It was just simply damage control just like they do every time someone exposes the lie with facts they can't dispute, they have no way to counter a poster who exposes the lie backed up by proof so they find an excuse to remove them! What was being posted was not in any way trolling it's just the kind of information that Montana and that bunch of scammers don't want their sheeple to hear!
DeleteLOL.............Way to go Dave!!!!!!!!!!! I would go back under another name but they blocked my IP. Not like it matters. I would just get banned in 3 minutes anyway. Hahahaha. You know we are adding fuel to the only argument that RVers have right? Duh.....how many screen names do you have.......duh......another "lopster" with a different screen name......duh........you will just be back under another screen name.......duuuuhhh. Its funny how they whine about that since they don't have facts or even common sense on their side. The thing is we would not need multiple screen names if the con artists running the site weren't banning anyone speaking the truth.
ReplyDeleteWow I thought I read it all but apparently I haven't. This is what DB posted on DV about Kuwait.
ReplyDeleteSandstorm the Kuwaiti dinar revalue bailed out the USA economy in the 90s Clinton suddenly had a budget surplus
Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/168256-about-the-issuance-of-a-new-iraqi-currency-soon/page-18#ixzz2rQ1ivWxM
This guy can't be serious to believe this nonsense.
OK now I have proof that DB is just trolling and in no way believes anything he is saying, why anyone would think it's fun to have people think they stupid is beyond me but now I have no doubt that's what this idiot is doing!
ReplyDeleteNow he is on DV claiming that the Clinton era budget surplus was funded by "the Kuwaiti RV"! We can know for certain now that DB's only purpose is to troll because not even he is that stupid!
OK DB you have gotten your responses out of everyone and if you think appearing to be an idiot is fun then have at it but your attempt at trolling has actually had just the opposite effect to what you intended. Your nonsensical posts presented an excellent opportunity to debunk a lot of popular myths by not only creating an environment where the truth could be discussed without censorship but it also attracted a lot of folks here to see just how absurd these popular forum myths are.
It may be hard to believe but I've heard other idiots claim the same thing. That story has made the rounds several times. Like most things in the world of dinar, the idiots figure if they repeat it enough times, it will eventually become accepted as truth. The clowns mix in a couple of verifiable facts (there was, at least on paper, budget surpluses for 3 of Clinton's last 5 years in office) so the lies (surpluses resulted from a revaluation of the Kuwaiti dinar) are obscured. It's an age old trick in successfully perpetrating a scam.
DeleteHere is where you guys are wrong. DB and many other believers CAN be that stupid.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how literal you meant that to be taken. "Stupid" can cover a lot of ground. But, in my view this is not a matter of a lack of intelligence. I've seen very similar things happen over the last 35 years in Silicon Valley where very smart people are so convinced that their startup is going to be a huge hit, that they will not accept the data you place in front of them. Thus they don't make the needed corrections and soon go out of business. Now admittedly the IQD scam is a very extreme case of this Koolaid effect, but still I think its about DB and Co. accepting a model of reality that is simply wrong and they will accept almost anything that hides that fact, or gives the appearance of supporting their false view. Its a deeper thing than just being too stupid to understand the basics of how currency works.
DeleteHahaha....now that he realized how stupid his statement was, what does he do? He makes an even stupider one.
ReplyDelete"What if the Dinar becomes a reserve currency with China" duuuhhhh
Lol......like any country wants to hold dinar as a reserve. Iraq is a terrorist sest pool. Yeah.....that sounds like a great currency to hold in reserve. A joke of a GDP with zero economy other than oil which aint much. Why does every dinar zombie think that Iraq is some massive economic wealth powerhouse? They are peons who are about to crumble into civil war.
I just saw this nugget of "wisdom" over at DV,
ReplyDelete"this so-called RV thing drags on year after year :
one false hope or news story after another :
we invested in a backwards--nutcase country"
So IRAQ is the nutcase?????? Lol!!!!
I am certain that 'National Health Service' wouldn't be too impressed and/or happy about having one of their employees vehemently spreading misleading and pernicious rumors regarding this ongoing Iraqi Dinar investment scam.
ReplyDeleteThis particular post will only make sense to one particular and rather persistent forum member. Out of respect for the forum rules and the owner of this website, I choose not to explicitly state the screen name of this person and/or first name and surname.
How about this gem from Nadita:
ReplyDeleteDontlop,
I am with you.. I think dong will rv first which will propel Iraq to get their acts together... and let's not forget Chinese Yuan.. it can go too.. China has scared the pants out of the market in the last two days of trading..
Don't mess with China I think they are the whistle blower just my opinion
Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/170772-news-channels-reported/page-2#ixzz2rRjUrSM5
How lost are these people on DV? I bet they think they're so intelligent and repeat this nonsense to family and friends.
Also of course speculation (if there was any) that friday's market drop was helped along by concerns over foreign exchange rates, would be a concern that some currencies might DE-value, i.e. lower the value relative to the reserve they are pegged to (the dollar usually). Thus making US products more expensive in foreign markets and foreign products cheaper in the US, so bad for US businesses. But to those fully saturated with Koolaid any report that contains the word "currency" must be pointing to a huge RV of the IQD!
DeleteOMG jrg, you beat to me to the post. Everyone over at DV and at Dinar Guru are talking about the comments made on Friday by Art Cashin on CNBC. I guess he said something countries adjusting their currencies or something. I did not see the comments or what he said but when I did a google on his name he seems to be some kind of doom and gloom person. Point being, this comment has the entire Dinar community practically going to the bathroom all over themselves. So it was interesting to see your comment about what the comments were actually about. Hopeium is a very, very strong drug
ReplyDeleteAt least we have no worries that dontlop is going to become involved in money laundering, as clearly he does not understand the concept (http://snipurl.com/28hz9e6)
ReplyDelete"All those dinar dropped into Iraq that were counterfit do not have to be backed up by reserves they weren't issued by the cbi
So Iraq needs to find out how much was dropped inside Iraqi borders to see how many dinar can be eliminated from the money supply"
Something tells me dontlop will not be volunteering his IQD to be eliminated. Of course even if this were true (and I have no idea of the CIA was engaged in this sort of thing or not), in 2005 a year AFTER the exchange, after any counterfeit currency that was exchanged was washed into current IQD, there was only ~10T in the money supply, now there is 85T.
Even more pathetic is that dontlop has found a kindred babbler at http://snipurl.com/28hza6g . Some one calling themselves JC Collins says:
"China has recently purchased the JP Morgan building in Manhattan for $725 million. One could reason that they have in fact purchased all of JP Morgan. "
Wow, calling it "reason" to claim that a Chinese conglomerate buying a $725M real estate asset from JPM (even if they still had their HQ there, which they moved in 1996) is the same as China purchasing the entire $207B company, now that is reasoning that I am sure will appear completely logical to dontlop.