It's not the worst thing in the world. Sure, it's a bit embarrassing. Nobody wants to admit to friends, family members, co-workers ... etc. that they got hoodwinked, but that's better than continuing down the same road toward perpetual disappointment and potential financial loss. Just like the alcoholic has to say "My name is John ... and I'm an alcoholic", the dinarian has to be able to say "I made a big mistake here. I got duped."
I had to say that to myself a couple of years ago. "My name is Sam, and I got conned." ("Hi Sam.") When I finally got around to doing my due diligence and realized that "deleting the zeros" means a lop, and that even if they don't lop the money supply is too big for the dinar to ever RV to a level that would make anybody rich, I did a Homer Simpson DOH!!! or two and started selling my dinar. It wasn't easy to say goodbye to the dream of instant millions, but in a sense it was blissfully liberating. At least now I knew what was going on.
And actually, it wasn't all my fault. I was new to currency speculation. There wasn't a lot of information out there on the Kuwaiti "RV" (which never happened), the history of revaluations, and many other things that the gurus were talking about to support their claims. And even if you found the information, most of the dinar forums wouldn't allow inconvenient facts to be posted as they were considered "negative". Even some of the most intelligent sounding gurus and researchers were repeating "forum facts" that had no basis in truth. And some of the redenomination articles actually used the word "revalue" when they were clearly describing a lop. It was confusing. It took years for those of us who have dug through articles and studied currency to get to the bottom of this and compile the information that is available today.
If you're hesitant to admit that you were scammed, look at it this way. You're in good company. Some very famous people have been the victim of scams. Steven Spielberg, Kevin Bacon, Sandy Koufax, Larry King, Zsa Zsa Gabor, John Malkovich, and Eliot Spitzer all lost money in the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme. Dr. Tim Berners-Lee, the father of the worldwide web (no dummy there), bought products online from a fake company. Singer Billy Joel lost millions to a former manager. Sting and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar lost millions to their shady financial managers. It happens.
So don't beat yourself up. Just chalk it up to experience and move on. You'll be glad you did. Just repeat after me ... "My name is (your name here) and I got dinar scammed.
Your analogy that this is an addiction like alcoholism is spot on! I recently broke up with my fiancé for this very reason. I am experienced in the field of addiction and I watched helplessly as he demonstrated all the classic signs Obsession Compulsion. Seeking. Preoccupation. Extreme highs and lows. More and more distracted. Less and less able to participate in every day life. Like work. Family Even a vacation. Letting the bills go and hawking possessions. Becoming irate when confronted with problem. Refusal to admit there is a problem. ALL classic addiction behaviors!
ReplyDeleteI lost a marriage to alcoholism and the behaviors of my dinar/RV addicted fiancé are all the same. It was horrifying to watch
Yes this phenomenon is an addiction indeed.
I am extremely sorry to hear that. I saw the same thing several years back with the NESARA / "World Global Settlements" thing that's been on Internet conspiracy forums since the 90's (and recently hijacked and repackaged by some Dinar 'guru's' who are increasingly running out of excuses). "During the bank changeover, all your credit cards & mortgages will be wiped, and you'll be given $10m cash which will be backed by 40-zeros worth of gold!" was the promise.
DeleteWhilst many are quite prepared to believe there will be some positive banking reform, some claims are wildly off. To start with, 40 zeros worth of gold = a sphere / cube of gold the size of half the inner solar system... Yet despite dead-giveaways like that, some people stopped paying their mortgages, credit cards, etc, in the belief of the ever-present "Imminent! Soon! Next week! It's only being held up by (insert boogeyman according to politics of the day here)" would really, really happen 'this time' and that the previous 1,473 false claims & failed predictions somehow "didn't matter" as to the integrity of the people throwing them about. 15 years on, many have now lost their houses & marriages as they've become as you said - increasingly unable to function in the real world.
If this stuff sounds familiar, that's because the underlying psychology of how pumpers pump is identical. Look at the CMKX penny stock fraud scam, and you'll exactly the same thing there. A combination of a permanently over-excited style of writing designed to whip people up into a frenzy and keep them 'hooked' on an emotional roller-coaster (extreme abnormal euphoria followed by a 'dip' in despair (to which the pumper would given them a new 'fix' to give them a new high ('hope') in the form of another made-up 'rumor' that sounds nice and makes people feel good but is completely devoid of any truth).
That mixed with a "forum hive mindset" (that's the adult online equivalent of juvenile "gang peer pressure"), and an endless stream of false assertions, logical fallacies, mis-translation errors (often deliberate), a whole string of propaganda techniques and ultimately a group of posers / attention seekers claiming to be something they're not ("secret intel guru's") and you have all the ingredients for a serious multi-year long addiction.
Ultimately, the whole thing is preying on people who are wise enough to know that some probable financial system change is in the air, but naive enough to attach themselves like a leech to the first silver-tongued snake posers who claim to know "what's really going on" and promises them free money (plus a generally "trusting" personality that causes them to accept everything at face value without the need for verification.
Some smarten up pretty quick, others remain with their sense of critical thinking almost permanently "unplugged", wandering around in a daze, bouncing from one "promise" to another. That's why sites like this are important Sam. Some (usually the loud ones) will hate you for "daring" to question "the dream", others (usually the quiet ones) actually interested in the facts will quietly thank you.
Hope everything works out well for you, Dmp9501.
Yep. Everything you said pretty much sums up the situation. I'm relieved I'm moving on from this RV delusional frenzy. But on a human level I pray that my ex fiancé comes to his senses. However have never seen any sign of that whatsoever
DeleteBravo Sam......My name is Greed and I got scammed. My name is " I lost my common sense" and I got scammed. My name is "Faith" and I got scammed.
ReplyDeleteWow......great post Sam.
ReplyDeleteAn addictive mind is a strange thing. It will convince itself that there is no problem even as everything around it is destroyed. It will defend till the end its continuation of the addictive behavior no matter the cost.
I see it a DV every time I scroll through. Defenders like Caz will run to defend the addiction any time someone offers treatment from dinaralism. If Caz were sitting in AA he would point out to every speaker that they too once drank obsessively so they should not speak out against it. Then you got people like Easyrider who are complete and total dinar addicts to the point of no return. I mean the genius actually tatooed in big letters down his fore arm "BELIEVE" LOL......what a tool. Whats he gonna tell his kids when it RDS? UUUMMM I had a positive outlook. I was anti-lopster. Believe. You can believe that he is mindless. Hahahaha.
Do we know when the redenomination might happen? Just saw this:
ReplyDelete"A finance committee member of Iraq stated that a law for omitting zeros from Iraqi currencies should be passed in order to confront the issues like debt and money frozen.
Finance Committee deputy secretary, Mr. Hadi stated further that the law should be passed as soon as possible to overcome some serious financial issues within the country.
He remarked, “The project to delete the zeros is in frozen state now and cons of approval is launched without coordination with the executive bodies will stagger policy the country, stressing the need for coordination and agreement with the concerned authorities for approval within a proper timeline.”
It has been known that the project of omitting zeros from the Iraqi currency will like to take place in next month."
Next month??? Remember the last exchange started in October. Wouldn't that be great! I keep hearing the CBI has planned it for the start of the year, but it is on hold. anyone seen anything more concrete?
Will an RD do anything for Iraq besides reducing value of circulating currency from 30 trillions to 30 billions?
ReplyDeleteWhat keeps IQD from being "internationally traded" at current value of 1 USD = 1,166 IQD?
Why isn't IQD listed on FOREX now ?
Will / can IQD be listed on FOREX after RD ?
Will Iraq continue to manage IQD at "artificial program rate" of 1166 after RD ? Until when ?
I agree that massive RV makes no sense - but neither does RD !
Please help - thanks, Lynn
Lynn - "Will an RD do anything for Iraq besides reducing value of circulating currency from 30 trillions to 30 billions?"
DeleteThat in itself can give people more confidence in the local currency when they see prices returning to normal, which can slow the rate of "Dollarization" and restore confidence in the local currency for trade.
Lynn - "What keeps IQD from being "internationally traded" at current value of 1 USD = 1,166 IQD? Why isn't IQD listed on FOREX now ? Will / can IQD be listed on FOREX after RD ?"
That's up to Iraq. All the "Chapter 7 / UN / IMF / World Bank / [insert bad-guy here] is stopping them", etc, stuff was made up pumper nonsense. What Iraq needs is stability, and right now they've got their hands full with a huge upsurge in bombings recently. In terms of currency they're also still trying to bridge the gap between official 1166:1 and a "street value" that's under 1200:1 (ie, if anything the official $ peg is still slightly over-valued compared to what Iraqi's inside Iraq are willing to trade for USD vs IQD & vice-versa). "What keeps IQD from being "internationally traded" at current value of 1 USD = 1,166 IQD" is the fact the market price of Dinar inside Iraq is persistently lower than the pegged rate. Not only will it not shoot up in value due to a mythical "RV", Iraq is actually struggling to keep it at current peg.
Lynn - "Will Iraq continue to manage IQD at "artificial program rate" of 1166 after RD ? Until when ?"
There's actually nothing "artificial" about it. Open this link in your PDF reader...
http://www.cbi.iq/documents/CBI_FOREIGN_EXCHANGE_AUCTIONS.pdf
...and scroll down to pages 63-66 (the bottom). As of 12th Sept, Iraq's market price was 1204:1 vs 1166:1 official auction price. "Market price" is the closest thing to the Dinar being traded as if it were unpegged & free-floated. It's not higher (as pumpers would have you believe) - it's LOWER! ie, given Iraq's huge money supply, the market doesn't think the Dinar is under-valued at all regardless of how the CBI peg it vs the $.
Lynn - "I agree that massive RV makes no sense - but neither does RD!"
The purpose of an RD is nothing more than to take out past inflation, and restore prices, etc, to levels seen in peer countries (ie, 1.3 Dinar bread instead of 1,300 Dinar). The whole process is value-neutral - no-one gets rich off it - it's all about removing inflation & restoring domestic economic confidence.
What Iraq is going through is absolutely no different to what Turkey went though despite the absurd lies & fantasies churned out by a few Western pumpers (which includes James "Adam Montana" Wolf who runs DinarVets) who've not only "got the wrong end of the stick", they've got the wrong stick from the wrong tree in the wrong forest, as far as Iraq's redenomination is some "get rich quick scheme" they've been pumping!
A lot of people on "RV" pumper forums probably wouldn't see sense in Turkey's lop from a "get rich quick" perspective, because they were all obsessed about "cashing in their banknotes" to the point of blindly seeing and even not wanting to see anything else, but to the average Turk, seeing a price of bread drop from 1,000,000 Lira back to 1 Lira made perfect sense when their 6-zero lop happened, as will Iraq when they eventually redenominate.
Will an RD do anything for Iraq besides reducing value of circulating currency from 30 trillions to 30 billions?
DeleteIt will reduce their money supply from 80+T IQD to 80+B IQI (the new currency will likely be called the IQI as the practice is to go through the country name). Note that Iraq likely will RD, but they might not as well. South Korea has done fine for 50 years or more on a currency that has an even lower rate than the Dinar. What they can NOT do is RV. Note someone above said an RV or RD are the same thing and about reducing the numbers on the notes. This is a misunderstanding. A 1000:1 RV raises the VALUE of the money supply without reducing its size, and thus immediately bankrupting the central bank, which is why it can't happen. An RD leaves the VALUE of the money supply alone, but changes its size (thus raising the value of the new notes since there are 1000x fewer of them).
What keeps IQD from being "internationally traded" at current value of 1 USD = 1,166 IQD?
A lack of interest. No one cares about the IQD. Currencies that are exchanged on a massive scale for trade are then also traded for speculation. But without the trade there is no movement so no one cares.
Why isn't IQD listed on FOREX now ?
Because no one has any desire to trade it in quantities that would attract anyone to make a market in it. There is nothing legally preventing it. The whole "becoming internationally tradable" is just another pumper myth.
Will / can IQD be listed on FOREX after RD ?
I very much doubt it as nothing will change about the availability of products offered for sale by Iraq, it will still just be oil.
Will Iraq continue to manage IQD at "artificial program rate" of 1166 after RD ? Until when ?
They are not doing so now. The whole idea of the "program rate" comes from pumpers spinning an IMF doc. The IMF monitors Iraq's banking system and economy and this monitoring program uses a "program rate" to convert everything to dollars to do the analysis. Rather than track the actual rate that Iraq uses (now 1166) the IMF keeps the rate used in their program (i.e. the program rate) at 1170 so its constant over the years. If Iraq moved their rate by a large enough amount (say 1% or 2%) then maybe the IMF would adjust their program rate as well, but they do not follow tiny changes like the one from 1170 to 1166 (0.4%). The exchange rate for a pegged currency is dominated by just the money supply divided by the foreign reserves of the central bank. Iraq has a 15% or so buffer in that they have about $80B in reserves and a bit over 80T in their M2, so they have some room to maneuver to help with financial issues.
I agree that massive RV makes no sense - but neither does RD !
The RD makes sense just for ease of transactions and putting their currency on a par with others in the region without costing them anything. They have to eventually print new notes anyway to get the Kurdish language. So they can (but might not) take advantage of this to also do an RD. But its not essential and they can continue without an RD for a long time if not for ever if they want. What they can not do as a huge RV, that is just not possible.
Please help - thanks, Lynn
Your welcome. Hope it was useful.
Lynn, let me help.
ReplyDelete1) The change of currency mainly was to add the Kurdish language on the bills and make transaction calculations easier (RV or RD it's really the same thing.smaller numbers on the bills).
2)The Iraq currency will never be a reserve currency, most likely added to a regional SDR basket if they can figure out a way to become stable. With the stuff in Syria soon is highly unlikely.
3)Forex is a scam like penny stocks (you have to be really good and get out fast). Try Forex and see how you do is my advice.
4)No!
5)RV or RD is the same thing, it's really about making calculations easier and accomplishing what the parliament already agreed to eventually accomplish. Which is getting the Kurdish language on a new currency. RD/RV means the same thing. In the end the only cost will be passed onto the tax payers to print up new currency.
It really is simple, and sorry nobody will profit but a dealer now, and maybe if people try to sell it back after the RD the dealers will get the double dip of 20% x2 (though I think when Iraq reforms their currency, all the dealers won't take it back) That would mean they would have to figure out a way to get it back into Iraq (there is no profit in that). My advice, become a dealer if you want to make money off the dinar (just don't keep too much inventory for the inevitable day where you are stuck with it, like music chairs). So many rubes so little time. BTW, Lynn what site are you from?
Not from any site - recent & novice purchaser of a little IQD - been watching this site & DV
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSo since clearly you seem to be invested in this thing. Please, I would love to hear what your (in your own words) answers would be to the questions you presented. I'd love to get a fresh perspective from someone that is seeking answers newly involved. Thanks!
DeleteThanks Brian and Chuckles for your input. I can only add that there was never any statement from the CBI that their currency reform would provide wealth to the Iraqi people. They have consistently stated that the reform was being done to simply cash transactions and increase confidence in their currency. The idea that they wanted to revalue to make their people wealthy was the creation of pumpers and gurus. If the Iraqi people want to prosper they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way. They're going to have to get educated, work hard, and build a better country. They're going to have to defeat the forces within and without who want to destroy it. It's going to take years. Decades, in fact. There's no quick fix here, no matter what you read on any dinar site.
DeleteThanks for all opinions - i'll keep trying to understand !
DeleteSo, after new currency (RD), new IQD = $1 USD (approx) and old IQD (those currently used) will = 1,166 or so per USD
Do I understand correctly that we will have to try to sell (in USA) our 25,000 IQD note for $600 or so USD per million IQD and if we desire to stay invested, we will buy new IQD at $1 USD per 1 IQD ?
I'm guessing the above is what y'all are trying to tell me what happens when Iraq does their RD
RD expected in 2014 or so ?
Lynn - "So, after new currency (RD), new IQD = $1 USD (approx) and old IQD (those currently used) will = 1,166 or so per USD"
DeleteIraq are planning to redenominate (lop) 3 zeros. This means they'll be introducing new currency with 3 fewer zeros than today, that will be exchanged at 1:1000. So 1166:1 becomes 1.166:1 but you will exchange at the same 3-zero 1:1000 new:old ratio. It's the latter that causes the former because as you said, it reduces the money supply by 99.9% which is what "lifts" the value in the first place.
Everything also gets repriced downwards by same factor 1:1000 factor. It can't work any other way as the maths obviously have to balance out across the board or you'd end up with 1,300 Dinar loaves of bread (currently worth $1.11 / €0.84 / £0.70) ending up with absurd international prices of $1,111 / €840 / £700 per loaf (using pumper junk economics)!
So, if you bought 1m Dinar (1,000,000 current Dinar at 1166:1 ($857 worth)), you will exchange them 1:1000 for new Dinar (you'll get back only 1,000 Dinar but each one will be worth 1,000x more). They'll still be worth $857 afterwards (redenominated = 1,000 Dinar at 1.166:1 instead of current = 1,000,000 Dinar at 1166:1). You won't lose or gain anything during the process (which is the whole point of the process - only a few Western conmen are pretending it's some "big secret" get-rich-quick scheme because they're making vast sums off of ripoff commission fees bought on the back of manufactured hype).
Basically, each 25,000 current Dinar banknote (at current 1166:1) will turn into 25 New redenominated Dinar banknote (at 1.166:1) - both are worth about $21.44.
Lynn - "Do I understand correctly that we will have to try to sell (in USA) our 25,000 IQD note for $600 or so USD per million IQD and if we desire to stay invested, we will buy new IQD at $1 USD per 1 IQD ?"
First of all, at 1166:1 rate, 1m Dinar is actually worth $857. If you're offered only $600 to change it back - well that's precisely where the scam is! The pumpers take an extortionate 15% "cut" when buying Dinar and almost as much when selling it back! This is why after all these years, Dinar sellers are raking it in, but Dinar holders haven't even broke even due to ripoff fess far higher than say changing $ to € & back.
"Best case" for Western Dinar holders is that Iraq accepts Dinar from outside of Iraq, and you could change it at a local bank in the USA. Worst case is they implement currency controls and you have to travel to Iraq to change it up (this is actually what happened during the last banknote change in 2003-2004):-
"Q: Will it be possible to exchange currency outside of Iraq?
A: No. The only official currency exchange locations will be located within Iraq."
This is the downside and possible risk for buying a currency which isn't being traded internationally. Western Dinar sellers claim to "promise" to change it back but their promises are already very empty given they regularly refuse to change back small amounts) even today.
As for "stay invested", when Iraq redenominates there'll be a set time limit to change old for new notes (might be a couple of years though last time was only 3 months), after which all current Dinar will be demonetized (become worthless). So you'll change 1m current Dinar ($857 worth) to 1k Redenominated Dinar ($857 worth) and either keep them or change into $857 (minus commission fee). If you choose to buy more redenominated Dinar at new 1.166:1, it will still cost the same $857 to buy 1,000 Dinar at new 1.166:1 rate, as buying 1m Dinar today does at 1166:1 rate.
briansimpson65: Everything also gets repriced downwards by same factor 1:1000 factor. It can't work any other way as the maths obviously have to balance out across the board or you'd end up with 1,300 Dinar loaves of bread
DeleteWell sort of. During an RD BOTH currencies (plus the dollar) will be used. So its not exactly that things get "repriced" but that they get an additional price. So the loaf of bread that now costs 1,300 IQD, will STILL cost 1,300 IQD but will for a year or so also be priced in the new dinars (likely the IQI) at 1.3 IQI, or 1,300 IQD. Once the RD period is over then only new dinar will be accepted in the market place, but banks may take old IQD and exchange them for a very long time. The exchange from Saddam Dinars to the current IQD (the "Bremmers") was done over a very short 3 or 4 month period due to the ease of counterfeiting the old dinars so they wanted to get rid of them as soon as possible. The current IQD is a good quality note, so they may well be accepted at banks for many years. Stores etc will only be REQUIRED to accept both for a year or two, then they are only REQUIRED to accept the new ones, but some may continue to accept the olds ones as well. But just what these periods will be is up to Iraq.
So if you hold IQD and want to stay in this (I recommend getting out by selling now) you will eventually have to exchange your IQD for the new (IQI) currency and there likely will be dealers offering that service for the same markup they use now, around 15% to 20%. Once it RDs, the dealers will not be able to sell IQD for anything more than the official rate most likely as they hype will be much reduced. So the price they offer will be perhaps 15% or 20% LESS than the price they get for them, so thats perhaps $700 USD per 1M IQD, maybe even less. If you can get more than that now, I'd advise you to consider selling as in my opinion its only going to get worse over the next year or so.
it simply amazes me at how many really STUPID people exist in the world. unfortunately most of these sheeple are older or senior citizens who have been duped for years with all this dinar stuff. here is a quote off recraps that someone posted under the stryker thread:
ReplyDeleteWHAT'S ANOTHER FEW MONTHS??? Some of us are out of money to pay our taxes and property insurance, car insurance, etc.
We need the R/V TODAY!!! How can we wait any longer??? I used up my savings helping needy people because I thought the R/V was just around the corner. I can't borrow any more money. I am in a hole too deep to climb out of.
LDA261
OK....SO THIS PERSON IS OUT OF MONEY??? maybe this person should have been doing something else constructive with their life to make money rather than listening to online clowns they don't know telling them a bunch of bull that they believe.
then we have 'ol poppy and bgg still at it on their chat room doing every other night q and a sessions and bgg's answers are like when you shake the magic 8 ball and whatever answer comes up, that's what you stick to. its hilarious that those sheeple have lost ALL sense of reality. poppy has once again claimed he will be "cashing in" before oct 1st and bgg was bold enough last night to say he is in ASN mode. which he translated as any second now. what I want to know is why their haven't been more arrests yet. I know the complaints have been filed against these lying morons but I would have thought the ax would have come down already on some of these BS artists!
here is another quote from recraps......:
Stryker, until you know what really is holding this thing up, it is irresponsible to make people frantic based on your take of things. The first and most important thing now has nothing to do with IRAQ. Notice they said Turki resigned yet days later we find he did not. This has nothing to do with the 2014 budget. Nothing Nothing. The rate was determined a long time ago so now it is a matter of whoever is holding this up outside of Iraq, is finally put in a place they can no longer interfere. OK That is when we will see our gift.
OUR GIFT???? no one owes this poster a "gift" LOL......these people are NUTS!
the okie followers have now left reality and are floating in some orbit in space. they are so delusional its comical. then we have that mountain goat idiot that claims to be on top of some mountain in Bavaria Germany when he/she/it's ip address is from the Boston/Connecticut area.
the natives will eventually get restless and I suspect the sh*t will hit the fan with these lying goo roos once they all finally realize they are in for a surprise but not a good one as they think and have been conned into believing!
oh and I forgot......all this latest nonsense about don't call the banks. how hilarious is that. like contacting any bank will stop a supposed revaluation of another countries currency....LOL......what crazy talk that is! what will the lying con men come up with next?
ReplyDeleteThe real reason they're now saying "don't call the banks" is because bank staff at many branches are finally figuring out why people have been panic buying Dinar over the net out of all proportion to other currencies, and are now starting to tell them the truth when they phone up - there is no "RV". Since one or two people recently did call their banks, were told this, and have posted that on the usual DV, etc, forums (and had their posts swiftly censored of course), pumpers are now telling people "not to call the banks" due to now being openly contradicted by the same people 'investors' expect to "cash in" with...
DeleteAn interesting aspect of this addiction is that nearly every dinarian can identify other dinarians as "addicts" but doesn't see themselves as an addict. It's amazing how often I read the dinarvets subscribers criticize TNT Tony or Okie or TerryK. Subscribers at TNT dinar do the same thing with Adam Montana or Frankie. Subscribers at DinarRecaps do the same thing with PTR or Blaino. Everybody sees everybody else as a drunk EXCEPT themselves. But they're all drinking at the same bar! They just have different bartenders! Montana serves up a specific concoction. Okie serves up a specific concoction. TNT Tony serves a specific concoction. All their patrons are drunk! That's the job of the bartender. Get them drunk and keep them drunk. Drunk on greed with a twist of ignorance and financial desperation. It's a lethal combination!
ReplyDeleteThank you Sam for giving me the courage to finally sell my Dinar and recoup a good portion of my money back. I drank too many DV cool-aid drinks, although I was hoping against hope that it was real. A relative of mine regurgitated every guru pumper line ever thought of over 4 years ago and I was hooked. I wanted to "help" my co-workers, so I regurgitated the same crap to them as well. To repeat a line that is often spoken by the "sheepeople" .....Thanks for all you do!... I cut my losses by selling back to "Ali" (he always wins) and I am telling everyone I encouraged to BUY to do the same thing and dump it! By 2012 I knew in my heart it was BS but tried to hang in there thinking my gut feeling was wrong and this is my "lottery ticket" lol. And no.....I spent more then I could afford to lose, just like everyone else. Thanks Again
ReplyDeletei plan to buy the new iraq dinar currency once it redenomintes and hold onto it so then mybe i can make real money on a real RV
ReplyDeleteZach, one thing I have learned from this experience is that hard currency makes a lousy investment. Unless you're collecting rare coins or old currency for its collectors value it's unlikely that it will go up in value enough to surpass the exchange fees. Forex traders make their money off of the fluctuations in value of less than 1%, and that is done electronically. After Iraq redenominates the new dinar won't be any more undervalued than the current dinar, and the CBI's policy of stability will likely remain intact.
ReplyDeletethe only reason why i say i might plan on buying dinar after they redenominate is because in a few articls i have read they plan on raising the dinar up to 3 dollars but they said after they redenominate back to irs old currenct levels way back in the 60 - 70s if i remeber
ReplyDeleteZach, First, clearly no matter what their plans, a central bank would never announce an upcoming exchange rate change. If you know in advance you can make a lot of money which means the central bank loses a lot of money and gets nothing for it. So any such "article" you heard about or remember must be false.
DeleteSecond, it can't happen even if unannounced. After an RD Iraq will have something like 80B IQD in M2 and 80B USD in reserves, so they could, if they maxed out, go to 1 NEW Dinar per 1 USD. Or maybe a smidgen more if they only back M1, which is possible. But, that doesn't change much as M1 is around 75T now, so it will be around 75B after and RD and thus not much different than M2. I doubt very much however that they will even move the rate to 1:1 with the USD since that gives them no head room to deal with various unexpected events, of which there are plenty especially in that part of the world. A rate past that, to say $3 just can't be supported by their reserves. Remember its a pegged currency, that means the CBI is on the hook to provide the rate they proclaim to all comers. Since there is nothing you can buy in Dinars, pretty much the only takers are importers in Iraq looking for dollars to buy foreign stuff. Consider the reaction in Iraq when, after the RD, they announce that the rate is now $3 per NEW Dinar, but they still only have $80B in reserves and hence are only backing 1/3 of the money supply. What would you do? Run to the bank of course and its instant collapse.
Zach, Iraq isn't "planning" that at all. Dishonest Western pumpers are pretending they're "planning" that to keep the manufactured hype going. All they're doing is looking up what the value of the Dinar was in 1970's (before it was inflated) and declaring "that's what it 'must' be today", whilst ignoring every reason why it isn't not least of which is a 1,000x fold increase in the money supply that caused the Dinar to fell in value 1,000x fold in the first place...
DeleteIt's as utterly ridiculous as saying "US house prices were an average $24k 40 years ago, so Obama should "RV" them to be $24k today, inflation doesn't matter", whilst ignoring that inflation is the number one reason why we don't have $24k today and aren't going to return to them by getting everyone to "pretend" it's still 1971 (like Dinar pumpers are hilariously doing with Iraq)...
It's not a matter what is the value of dinar in today and 20-25 year's ago.It's just depands on the develoment on Iraqi country.
DeleteMark. Where did you get your economic knowledge from? It depends on WAY more than the development of “Iraq country”. Many countries prosper financially while their currencies falter. I’m surprised (not really) that someone selling dinar as an investment would be so misinformed.
DeleteAlso, why do you guys have Presidential Order 13303 plastered on your website? It has nothing to do with dinar.
Mark Jones - "It's not a matter what is the value of dinar in today and 20-25 year's ago.It's just depands on the develoment on Iraqi country."
DeleteCurrency is not a "stock" in the development process... South Korea is a fully industrialized 1st world nation with a 9x larger economy (including Iraq's oil sales) and has the same value as the Dinar. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
The fact you work at dinarcurrency.com which has the most absurd deliberate disinfo plastered on the main page surrounding "Presidential Order 13303" (which has absolutely nothing to do with the Dinar, and was all about 1. Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq from any legal attachments or liens, and 2. Protecting Iraqi oil products and interests and ownership by US persons *inside Iraq* (ie, preventing Iraq from nationalizing American oil interests / preventing Iraqi courts from seizing property of multi-nationals *inside Iraq*, etc). Full original text is here
EO13303 has zero to do with Americans outside of Iraq importing banknotes to America. Only confused pumpers stick it on their webpages when trying to sell currency to impress clueless amateurs...
The fact you're also charging utter ripoff 20-72% spreads ($1030-$1300 for 1m Dinar which is worth $857 official peg and $833 market value inside Iraq), $80 for 1m Vietnamese Dong (that's actually worth only $47), and $150 for 1m Indonesian Rupiah (that's worth only $87), sums everything up without further comment...
Another example. Before Italy joined the Euro, they had the 5th largest economy in the world. I'd say that's a pretty well developed country. Their exchange rate was about 1600:1
DeleteOk, Mark, enlighten us. Or is this the typical vague, drive by reference to the "future of Iraq" that dinar sellers and pumpers have become so good at? What are the "development" prospects of Iraq? Iraq is an oil economy. Ninety percent of GDP and 95% of exports are oil. There is no manufacturing. There is no agriculture. There is no entertainment or tourism. What is the future of a country with a single industry, with a corrupt gov't, with an increasingly violent populace, and in the middle of one the most unstable parts of the world? It certainly isn't good enough to push the dinar as an "investment" onto unsuspecting, financially desperate people. If the middle east becomes peaceful and if Iraq diversifies their economy, eliminates the violence, ends the corruption and stablizes their gov't, then, in 30 years, you could probably make the case that Iraq has a promising future. But if you're some sort of export on Iraq and not just schlepping a bad investment, please inform us otherwise.
DeleteNetwork: I agree with all that (there may be opportunities for investing in Iraqi companies, but its very very high risk). But, I think you miss the key problem with Mark's statement, which is that even if Iraq's economy has a rosy future and grows dramatically for years, that does not imply in any way that the exchange rate will do so as well. One of the things that promotes economic growth is a stable exchange rate (and thus the CBIs two primary goals are low inflation and a stable exchange rate). So if considering an investment in Iraqi Dinars the economic prospects are pretty much irrelevant, which makes such claims as Mark's all the more obviously pumper koolaid.
DeleteJrg, that's true. That's why I tried to emphasize that IRAQ may have a bright future if all those things go well. You're absolutely right, even if all the stars align and Iraq diversifies, grows and prospers, it still doesn't mean the dinar will appreciate in value. In fact, it is far more likely to depreciate. If they want to stimulate growth, most nations around the world actively pursue policies that depreciate their currency. Japan is doing this right now. The US looks like likely to continue quantitative easing for some time which weakens our currency but also stimulates manufacturing. One of the grand lies pushed by pumpers is that a growing nation also means a growing currency. It just isn't true.
DeleteThis is what I have been trying to point out for years. Pumpers and dinar pimps like Montana and snake oil salesmen like Not-so-Breitling are always misleading their victims by spouting off the "bright future" of Iraqs growing economy. Havent you heard that Hitlarry said Iraqs economy will out grow Chinas? LOL....Of course the problem is Iraq has no economy other than oil that WE help them pull out of the ground. Like has already been pointed out......Iraq has no manufacturing, factories, skilled workers, tech industry, very little agriculture, and they are about as corrupt and backwards as disfunctional countries can get. Even if Iraqs "economy" was growing at 50% a year that would most definately mean their currecny value would be going down instead of up. Growing economies need to print more money to pay for services which means more inflation. More people with more jobs means more demand for more items and demand equals an increase in prices which basically equals inflation. Of course none of this matters to the delusioned that think investment in Iraq means the dinar value is going to increase 100s of 1000s of percent. If growing economies means currency value increases then maybe the pumpes can show us evidence of such. Should be simple seeing how economies have grown all over the world by leaps and bounds over the past 150 years. That evidence will of course never be offered by the scam artist since it doesnt exist. Instead liars like Montana will continue to lie to their flock about the great currency value increase which is going to make his believers all rich.
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ReplyDeletethe iraq dinar & Indonesian Rupiah is planning to redenominate there currency. and the dong is even worse but i have not heard any news of redenomination yet for them
ReplyDeleteThanks for this website. I too believe that Dinar is a scam. I have a friend who is wrapped up in this. He won't hear reason. He was "sent" to sign contracts at an attorney's office… paid someone $2500 to hold his dinar at a safe house. (I know…right?) Then they sent him to Nevada to supposedly wait at a hotel for people flying in to pay him big $$$. Any insight into what is about to happen? He's not leaving with money, this much I know. Is he in any danger right now potentially, based on what people have seen before? I wish I could help him see how crazy this is.
ReplyDeleteHe will learn that he was just scammed out of a lot of money. Hopefully he's able to take it well and move on and learn from his mistake. Hopefully he didn't drain his life savings on this scam. I see a lot of folksinger DV are waking up and selling off their dinar. Now that site is left with Obama haters and conspiracy theorists. That site has become pathetic and everyone on there is lost and living in a different world.
Delete"Is he in any danger right now potentially"
DeleteIt's unlikely, but you never know. Most of these people are just two bit scam artists, not violent criminals.
$2500 just to hold onto his dinar? I really don't get that one. Can't you get a safe deposit box for like 20 bucks?
As far as the Nevada/Reno/Wherever scams, they're still a somewhat cloudy, to me, at least. There have been numerous people that have flown across the country (usually to Reno, for whatever reason), with the promise of a cash in for millions. Of course, as you already realized, they never leave with any money.
I've seen some people that claimed to have fallen for this, but wised up when they realized that they were supposed to hand over their dinar and sign a contract. The point of the contract being that this person will "cash in" their dinar, withold a certain percentage for their fee, and wire the rest to the dinar investor. Problem being that the contracts didn't specify a rate, so the scammer could just cash in the dinar the next day at the current rate, withold a generous fee, and wire the rest of the money to the investor who then has lost his dinar at a heavy loss.
Some have left with "SKRs" (safe keeping receipts) and no cash. At best, these people have given an interest free loan to the con artist (plus probably paid them some fees for the service). At worst they've lost 100% of their investment.
An interesting one is (slowly) playing out on DV right now. NORTEC, who appears to believe virtually 100% of what every idiot dinar guru tells him, had supposedly exchanged his dinar for SKRs with his big wig "mormon contacts". Then he said he got the call that it was time to come in and exchange his SKRs. Then a few days later, he posts that he exchanged his SKR and now the SKR/Dinar are being used as "collateral". And he's under an NDA so he can't be any more specific than that.
These scammers love their NDAs. Make the mark think he's got some super secret inside deal when in reality all they're doing is keeping the mark from telling anyone how badly he got scammed.
There's really only a few possible explanations that I can see here:
1. NORTEC is just lying, and is a run of the mill pumper, getting paid by one of the dealers.
2. Collateral means loan. Possible that the scammers conned him into getting either an unsecured personal loan or a property loan (secured by value of the property itself), further conned him into thinking that the dinar is being used to secure the loan, and have made off with his dinar.
I can think of other possibilities, but at their core they're just variations of the above.
Then there's Blainos "Fulton Bonanza" which he said was off the table but now he's back talking about it every day again. Basically just seems like the SKR scam, from what I can tell. He's big on his NDAs as well, of course.
I too wish I would have found your blog before I had spent some money on Dinars. Unlike some of my family who have bought thousands and thousands of dollars worth of dinars, luckily I only spent 200. Now that I know the truth I think it's just cool to have some other country's currency laying around to show my kids. Other than than, it's just colorful paper to me now.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the blog. I read every post.